This is a guest post for swpd by Michael Gibson, an artist and humorist who lives in Youngstown, Ohio. He describes himself as a "Short Fat black Guy and Fledgling Writer of sorts, and a married father of four." (You can read more about him below this post.)
Very rarely do our local, white-framed media report on the fact that black people are doing good, charitable deeds in their communities, just as white people are. When they do report on a black person's good work, they frame the piece as if it were the exception to the rule. There’s always a negative taint about the report.
The mindset of the local news media is located where our news anchors hail from—the suburbs. You can easily perceive who the news is targeted to when it airs at 6:00 p.m. every day. Black people clearly don't matter much to the people who write and produce the news, and when we experience tragedy, there is very little sympathy or empathy expressed from whites.
We are portrayed as thugs and criminals, unworthy of equal consideration as people. For the most part, whites frame and report news about blacks in ways that fit their narrow definition of blacks. We are mere stereotypes, bits of statistical data whereby whites judge our worthiness to be amongst them. We are judged on our appearance -- Doo Rags, Saggy pants, Black Male Swagger -- and on our speech, whether we be safe Negro or no. (This in light of Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid commenting that, Obama, as a black candidate, could be successful thanks, in part, to his "light-skinned" appearance and speaking patterns "with no Negro dialect, unless he wanted to have one.")
However, if the perpetrator is white, then the story is that there must be something wrong with him mentally, because good white people just don’t do things like that. The lawbreaker suffers for his crime as an individual, hence the totality of the white race is not blamed for his misdeeds. This is why I don't watch the local news anymore, for it has little to offer in the way of content for a community that’s 40 percent black.
You would think sometimes when you watch the news that black people are invisible. However, whites sometimes remind other whites that we are indeed visible, especially when we do something wrong. Then our picture is splattered on the front page of every local newspaper, with the local reporter using our image as the lead-in. We become relevant either when we offend white sensibilities or violate white decorum.
I really hope white people can come to understand why black people are mad so often. I also hope whites can come to understand (and I know it’s hard) during those times when black anger is turned inward, and we inexorably take that frustration out on ourselves or others. I hope that we can be given the same leeway -- the same consideration that privilege bestows upon them -- to search for the historical and other mitigating factors as to why a person, any person, acts the way they do.
A friend of mine who is an esteemed Pastor and Professor at the local college spoke to me of her experience. She’s been married to a white man (my Pastor) for over 33 years now. Their 23-year-old son was involved in an incident where he rescued four children from a burning house that ultimately burned to the ground; in the process, he sustained 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree burns to his upper back, the side of his face, and his neck, ear, and arms. The only reason the local news covered the event was because they bowed to pressure from family and friends and those who know them in the community. These were people who wondered why it took so long for anything related to the incident to appear on the local news.
When one station finally got around to reporting this young man’s heroism (4 days after the fact), they made it their last segment. Another station didn't even appear to be interested in this story of a black hero until after the first stations aired it, and the local paper reported it (5 days after the fact). The station that had been pressured into being interested reported first on local taxes, charitable things some whites were doing, local political fights, etc. They waited until the last minute (and that’s how long the segment took, about a minute) to air it.
This heroic deed happened on the south side, in the inner city. This gallant, selfless act took place where the “bad” black people live, so I'm sure it raised a few flags with the white news director. Aside from Will Smith, there aren't too many black action heroes in the media. So it’s hard for whites to see black men as anything other than thugs, rappers or athletes.
It’s to the point where black people aren't noticed until we do something that fits the stereotypical view whites have about us. Then it gives them a framework to fashion their story around. When Michael Vick was busted for his participation in a dog-fighting ring, whites looked to examine the black mindset that motivates some black men (if not all, in their view) who do terrible things like this. White media outlets held panel discussions; experts on human behavior were interviewed at length. Consequently, when black men commit acts as in the case of Michael Vick, some whites respond with a, “well there you go,” and “well what did you expect?”
I remember a young black female news reporter who was hired by one of the local stations; there was a piece about her in the paper. While explaining how excited she was to be working in Youngstown, she lamented that as a black journalist, she was not allowed to tell the stories from the community that she knew the viewers there would be interested in. She would have to toe the party line so to speak, and do stories that appealed to a broader audience. Namely — but not explicitly — whites.
It used to amaze me how white reporters could brave the dark and dangerous streets of the inner city to give white viewers a feel of the gritty underbelly of mainstream society. But then, why couldn’t they just as easily scour the streets to bring us positive representations of blacks as well? Why is it so hard for these same news outlets to view us through the same non-discriminatory lens as they view their own? You can really get ticked off when the news anchor looks you in the eye and says something like, “Bringing you the news that affects our valley! Fair and objective news reporting!” You want to put your foot through the television, because you know that’s a lie.
---
About himself, author Michael Gibson writes,
I was always considered shy and withdrawn as a child. I was drawn to Art at a very early age, owing the spark of my obsession to two young artists in my school named Al Lewis and Bobby Crochet. Both took me under their wings and showed me all they knew. I made my home at the school library, always coming home with a bounty of knowledge under my arms, seldom playing outside with the other children, opting instead to feed from the likes of Michelangelo and Raphael. My gift gave me a sense of purpose, doing a lot to lift my esteem.
Considered eccentric by some, and a loner by others, I was cursed with a young face that didn't help matters much. Being black you are expected to look like you just got out of prison. People always think they have me figured out, sometimes even talking down to me, for they think me to be their junior, rather than their peer or senior. I worked in mental Health for over 19 yrs before going on disability.
I have garnered a host of prestigious awards in such notable shows as the 60th Artist Annual at The Butler Institute of American Art, where I was awarded the Inaugural Margaret Kaulback Best in Show award, for my piece entitled, Dancer at Dusk. I was subsequently awarded a One Man Show in the follow-up event, the 61rst Artist Annual. I have been married to a wonderful woman Karen for 29 yrs now, being the Father of 4 grown children; 3 daughters and a son. I am also the grandfather of 4 beautiful girls.
EXACTLY. VERY TRUE. While reading this article, I was reminded of the Fort Hood shooting tragedy which happened just recently. Right after the shooting massacre happened, a Muslim American group set up a charity fund to help the victims of the shooting. I was proud of them and I sent the website to as many people, to raise awareness about this and encouraged people to donate money.
ReplyDeleteNobody in the media bothered to highlight the Muslim charity fund. No, they were more interested in focusing on "evil" Muslims and Arabs, they preferred talking about how Islam is such a barbaric religion. They don't give a $hit about well-meaning Muslim Americans who want to help the victims.
Musing from my white perspective, I'd say that while the practice is deplorable, it seems to fit within the white ethos: whites are just people; PoC are "other." In reporting on white charitable deeds, news producers craft the story in race-neutral ways: "The program is designed to help at-risk teens in the area." But in considering a report on a similar program focused on black teens or in mostly black neighborhoods, the news producers might well decide to kill the story because it feels "racial" to them (even so, they would probably not identify their unease with the topic). The same story about white teens or a white neighborhood, however, doesn't have the "taint" of a racial aspect. Except that, of course, it actually does have a racial aspect. Ironically, news outlets don't want to appear to be "advocating" in favor of a particular racial group. But within white culture, "race neutral" equals "all white."
ReplyDeleteThat man really is a hero!
ReplyDeleteBut ugh, this is SO true about local news in my area too. have you noticed too how black people are almost always filmed outside, like on the street, and white people inside, often in their homes? I think that way of interviewing black people on camera builds on this impression that black people are like, street people; it gets them more associated with where they live ("the ghetto," as whites always seem to call black areas), and in the different filming of whites, they get to be just individual people (same old same old, that).
I hope this thread could be about black men in some way taht the others have been about POC women, but that's not really for me to say, i guess.
This is all so true about the news. Another way that non-white heroism is diminished (because it happens to other POC) is the white myth that all our good young white men are out there protecting our country (from the brown masses) in the armed forces. In fact, both African American and Native American populations are overrepresented in the military. And the contributions of soldiers of color have often been erased from the history books.
ReplyDelete1. The OP looked at whites only seeing Black men in terms of crime & stereotypes, and how that causes us to completely ignore their heroism. I wonder how much of this is linked to the White Male Savior trope, and the desire to be the only ones who fit it
ReplyDelete2. On the gender front, does the Strong Black Woman stereotype serve to obscure the heroism of Black women? As in, they are *expected* to be heroes, so it's not "newsworthy"?
3. Do NOT Google "African heroes" if you value low blood pressure.
@ AE:
WTF? You seriously think this does not apply to Black women as well?!
I have pointed this out many times before. As long as whites continue to see non-whites as that which is the "other" or "abnormal," then they'll never be balance coverage or portrayals.
ReplyDeleteMany whites can only understand the "other" through the framework and lens they've created for them. This is why such an effort was made to categorize Michelle Obama as a militant, aggressive black woman, because this is how white American society see black women and they could only make sense of Mrs. Obama by forcing her to conform to the stereotype of the aggressive, black woman.
I remember an [East] Asian guy in one of my sociology classes explaining that the portrayal of Asian males in the media is meant to appeal to whites (it's how whites want to view and understand Asian males, as buffoons or weird).
The sensationalizing of the media means that watching the news is like watching a movie with recurring plots and the same storyline. The blow 'em up movies are cliche but they work nonetheless. As long as they make money and increase ratings this way, the formula won't change.
So the storyline goes: whites are the heroes, blacks are the villians, Asians are the buffoons, etc.
Another thing. I remember watching the indie movie 'A Passage to India.' In it, a young Indian boy comes to Canada to find a hero to return with him to India to cure his 'dying' mother. One day, on the docks, he's knocked overboard and is rescued by a black man. He knows this man is a hero for saving his life, but he's confused since he's black. He tells the black man that he can't be a hero because heroes are supposed to white. Lol!
ReplyDeleteObviously, it's telling. The boy spent his young life watching superhero movies and all the heroes are white, so naturally he assumed heroes can only be whites.
This man is speaking the truth. I will never forget when a story broke out about a young 15-year-old White girl killed her younger sister. The excuses were appauling. One of them of course was the mental illness excuse, but the one that threw me over the edge was the changing of her race. There were people who said "oh she is Italian she is not White [Like Italians do not benefit from White privilege] then some had the nerve to say she was Latina. That shit made me throw a piece of paper and the computer and scream boooooo! I just couldn't believe the excuses some White commenters made to excuse the responsibility of that young girl of murdering her younger sister. Even with Columbine situation. Some White people came up with every excuse to not have those students take responsibilty of killing those students. Have you noticed that the media does not call them terrorists? Even though that could be considered a terrorist act?
ReplyDeletethesciencegirl wrote:
ReplyDelete"African American and Native American populations are overrepresented in the military."
Blacks yes. Native Americans? No. However, your knowledge of the military is minimal. When it comes to combat units, the percentages of whites and blacks are in line with their percentages in the national population.
However, when it comes to military officers, whites lead. Becoming an officer requires a college degree. Thus, the path out of the enlisted ranks is blocked for many blacks.
You wrote:
"And the contributions of soldiers of color have often been erased from the history books."
This is simply false. Americans know very little military history, thus there is little reason Americans would know about the actions of a small segment of the military.
We generally learn the names of some key battles, but we know little about who fought them.
To get to the topic of minimizing Black heroism, here's something from my own life that I didn't realize until I was grown.
ReplyDeleteMy maternal grandfather helped liberate a concentration camp. I got this story via my mother, who was relaying what he told her about it. I don't remember which camp it was, though. But nobody but my family is aware of this. If my grandfather were White, everybody would know who he is. He might even have been paid to go on speaking engagements about the Holocaust.
So that's my story about minimizing Black heroism.
@no_slappz re: teaching the contributions of soldiers of color.
ReplyDeleteIn my history classes in public school, I was taught only about the white soldiers and their exploits. I never learned about the segregated black units who fought in the Civil War, or WWI or WWII. I never learned about the 442nd Regimental Combat Team, made up of Americans of Japanese descent, the most highly decorated (and decimated) unit of WWII. I never learned about the Tuskegee Airmen. And on and on. All of these I found out by reading alternative histories or from documentaries specifically meant to reverse the white-heroes-only public education deficit.
This post reminds me of the film "Miracle on St. Anna. There were some people that ridiculed him for making that film. However, I think he did it for the same reason of this post of how people minimize Black heroism.
ReplyDeleteEven with Columbine situation. Some White people came up with every excuse to not have those students take responsibilty of killing those students. Have you noticed that the media does not call them terrorists? Even though that could be considered a terrorist act?
ReplyDeleteOr Unabomber. Timothy McVeigh (sp?).
As is well-known to Black people, when someone White fucks up big-time, nobody goes into a cultural analysis as to why that person fucks up. Remember Enron? Nobody went out of their way to examine White American culture as a way to explain their behavior. They were just presented as typical corrupt corporate bigwigs. Nobody critiqued Whiteness to figure out why so many White people fuck up on such a large scale. It's about their "unique" story riddled with tragedy and suffering (despite the fact that it's a narrative Paint-by-Numbers).
Paul Mooney lays it out for us.
When someone Black fucks up, everybody's interrogating and scrutinizing Blackness itself.
What I think would be more interesting is people looking at examples of Black heroism, especially heroism that benefits White people, and asking what is it about Black people that enables us to do such things despite knowing how White people view and treat us.
@no_slappz, my military knowledge may be "minimal", but my research skills are not. I used US government data from multiple sources before making any claims. A couple of places I looked:
ReplyDeletehttp://prhome.defense.gov/poprep2005/contents/contents.html
http://www.heritage.org/Research/NationalSecurity/cda08-05.cfm (this site has a conservative bias, but their raw data is from the Dept. of Defense).
What are your sources?
RVCBard said:
ReplyDeleteAs is well-known to Black people, when someone White fucks up big-time, nobody goes into a cultural analysis as to why that person fucks up. Remember Enron? Nobody went out of their way to examine White American culture as a way to explain their behavior. They were just presented as typical corrupt corporate bigwigs. Nobody critiqued Whiteness to figure out why so many White people fuck up on such a large scale. It's about their "unique" story riddled with tragedy and suffering (despite the fact that it's a narrative Paint-by-Numbers).
Exactly!
When someone Black fucks up, everybody's interrogating and scrutinizing Blackness itself.
What I think would be more interesting is people looking at examples of Black heroism, especially heroism that benefits White people, and asking what is it about Black people that enables us to do such things despite knowing how White people view and treat us.
Good point! However, I'm afraid that some White people we'll look at this perspective and treat those Blacks as the exception to the rule to make themselves feel more comfortable in their racism. Instead of dismantling the stereotypes of Black people. You know the magical negro Morgan Freeman type.
thesciencegirl,
ReplyDeleteIf you look at the data at the site you provided -- prhome.defense.gov -- you can confirm my statements.
There are definite patterns in military service, especially now that we have a volunteer military. However, things are competitive. Every recruit takes the Armed Forces Qualification Test -- a military version of an SAT that tests your mechanical, electrical and clerical aptitudes, plus a little vocabulary.
Based on results, recruits are divided into four quartiles. The dummies are Class 4. The smart guys are Class 1. They get more choices.
Bottom line -- combat units are overweighted with whites. Engineering is overweighted with whites. The officer corps is overweighted with whites. But the overall military is overweighted with blacks. Black women, especially.
However, I'm afraid that some White people we'll look at this perspective and treat those Blacks as the exception to the rule to make themselves feel more comfortable in their racism. Instead of dismantling the stereotypes of Black people.
ReplyDeleteI'm scared they'll take them not as the exceptional deeds the are, but as how Black people should act in everyday situations.
@no_slappz, right, as I already said in my first comment, blacks are overrepresented. And Native Americans are also overrepresented overall in the military compared to their percentage of the population. I don't recall saying anything about different jobs or branches. Also, if you'd like to continue conversing with me, stop being so condescending.
ReplyDeleteShall we stop conversation period about percentages of races in the military, how far up which ones tend to go, and so on? Seems off the topic of black heroism to me.
ReplyDeleteNo question that mainstream local news thinks that advertisers believe that the majority of the desired demographic/income category viewers don't want to see stories about blacks.
ReplyDeleteThe advertisers and local news producers may be wrong. There is a market for "good news" - traditional heroes who run into burning buildings to rescue children, people who see a human need and come up with ways to meet it, classrooms of schoolchildren who collect money for disaster victims, etc. I don't think that the average white viewer would change the channel if a well-done 1 or 2 minute segment featured a black hero.
I am all for telling stories of the "ordinary heroes", the infantrymen, medics, able seamen, even the civilian folks at home pulling double shifts to make ships and ammo. The white public should know about the Tuskeegee Airmen, RVCBard's grandfather, a Civil War free black man Robert Fitzgerald who returned to service after a head wound, serving as scout and teamster, until the officers caught onto his near-blindness (from Proud Shoes, Pauli Murray, author's family history), and so on. Heck, the white public doesn't even know its OWN history well.
RVCBard, your maternal grandfather and many other unheralded heroes, black and white, may not have wanted to go speak about liberating the camps. Many vets buried those memories, along with the other horrors of war. Sometimes they don't want to be seen as heroes because they saw other heroes who didn't make it home. The WWII combat vets were truly The Greatest Generation, whatever their actions in civilian life afterward.
No_slappz is a racist troll. He has polluted other race blogs and will he will most certainly derail the thread with his inexhaustible fund of race Realist/Eugenics talking points. Do not engage him unless you want to be inundated with Black crime stats, the fact that Blacks have not contributed anything of merit to civilization, the supposed fact that Blacks are an unclean race and of course that coup de grace: Blacks are just inferior throwbacks that are holding down the never ending awesomeness of White and Asian genius.
ReplyDeleteRVCBard, your maternal grandfather and many other unheralded heroes, black and white, may not have wanted to go speak about liberating the camps. Many vets buried those memories, along with the other horrors of war. Sometimes they don't want to be seen as heroes because they saw other heroes who didn't make it home. The WWII combat vets were truly The Greatest Generation, whatever their actions in civilian life afterward.
ReplyDeleteWhy the hell do I feel insulted by this?
One thing I like about Extreme Makeover: Home Edition is that they frequently show/give homes to black people who are the heroes of their communities and are involved in changing the lives of people of all cultures. Yet I wonder why black people who have true stories of heroism end up on tv, while white people with true stories of heroism (a la the Blindside) get feature films.
ReplyDeleteI wonder why when Cuba Gooding Jr. plays a buffoon that's a feature film and when he plays Dr. Ben Carson (the black neurosurgeon who was the first to separate twins conjoined at the head) that's a tv movie.
I wonder why Denzel Washington gets nothing for being a Union soldier and an Oscar for being a thug.
I wonder why people know who Idi Amin is but not Yaa Asantewaa.
I wonder if part of this is self promotion. For example, according to Gloria Ladson-Billings, black teachers are typically in poor schools b/c they sought them out but white teachers are typically there b/c they couldn't get jobs elsewhere. Yet, as Macon has pointed out on this blog, there are tons of movies about white teacher heroes in poor non-white schools. Often these white teachers have written books about their efforts or been nominated/positioned themselves for awards while the black teachers just do their jobs quietly... Now that I think about it, a lot of times when black people are on Extreme Makeover: Home Edition it's because somebody else nominated them -- not because they were seeking attention/aid.
I wonder if this post is too long.
RVCBard, maybe that's a rhetorical question, and I don't know why you feel what you feel, but I think it's insulting because the fact that you offered that story within the context of white supremacy was ignored. The kind of racism being pointed out in this post and thread, and specifically, your offering of another example of it, was explained away by NancyP with something that basically said, "Oh come now, it was probably something else, instead of racism, that caused your grandfather to stay quiet like that. You see, I know better than you about these things, so you can just go sit back down and be quiet now, okay? Just like your grandfather did!"
ReplyDeleteAgain, not to presume why you feel insulted.
When Asians are in the news, it's one of 4 stories:
ReplyDeleteNorth Korea is evil.
China is made of lead.
Asian guy snaps and kills.
Asian scientists did something neat.
It can all be summed up with a condescending "Oh those crazy g**ks."
@ RVCBard, you said, Why the hell do I feel insulted by this?
ReplyDelete... Because it's condescending and obnoxious and suggests that racism had nothing to do with why your grandfather went unacknowledged?
With all due respect, Cloudy, let's not bring the Oppression Olympics here.
ReplyDeleteZara, Oppression Olympics? Really? I like that your first thought is "Oppression Olympics" and not "empathy."
ReplyDeleteNice.
@RVCBard, you said: Why the hell do I feel insulted by this?
ReplyDeleteMaybe because it suggests that it is black people's own fault that their heroism is unacknowledged? If only they'd self-promote better! (Never mind that SOMEbody is doing the promoting for white veterans, and pretty much just the white veterans.) Just guessing. It would seem that there are lots of reasons that this is insulting. IDK what YOUR reason is.
@RVCBard..
ReplyDeletein addition to what everyone is saying it is also possibly because it plays to a giant clusterfuck and stereotype of the Noble negro/humble negro and SBW
The one who breaks her back but wants no recognition, the silent quiet mourning, the earthy will give her soul for others but not utter a word, because suffering is regal, and for her to consume.
It is the Strong black woman shit, disguised under secret sacred code of honour BS that gets thrown out on the daily.
Bravo! Well put indeed (father). I will, however, ignore the likes of unconventional comments, for they are simply obsolete in its fashion.
ReplyDeleteNumerous stories come to mind, but none more thoughtfully intrigued than the likes of my own. This story similar to the heroism previously stated, yet less heroic. You have your youth baseball and basketball and other sport teams amongst the "community", that seem to always have that camera spotlight envy, if you will. The news media reports as such, to inform all of the class-act teams the "city" has to offer. For instance, take the local little league (take your pick) team that just so happens to play for some glorified championship. "Be sure to tune in at 6 when we give coverage on, (insert random team here)", headlines would say. In 2005, the pint size thug-ified overlooked city of Youngstown was represented by 30 some odd youths participating in Track and Field at the Junior Olympics held in New Orleans. Don't expect a headline there people. The Junior Olympics is indeed a prestigious event. Not only did they represent Youngstown, but also the entire, well populated, state of Ohio. Seeing this on the news, 'don't hold your breath'! You may recall a scene from Coach Carter, when the team worked so hard only to lose in the end. Similar case. None did better then the young man, whom the OP had the pleasure of raising. No first, no. Finishing eighteenth in the two-hundred meter dash amongst the likes of sixty competitors.
To sum an already overdrawn story up, there was not any kind of recognition of any sort. Not a news article, or any report laying such. Be sure to expect a story on your local "team" however. Call it what you may, but the media simply only showcases the amplitudes of dare I say, whites. I am sure a city recognized for crime and gang affiliations would have loved to gazed upon such a story. But if I were white...
I don't comment often, but I just wanted to say thanks for bringing this topic up. It's something that really drives me crazy.
ReplyDelete@Cloudy:
ReplyDeleteTake a look at the comments on the Asian fetish thread.
The focus of much of the commentary on the "Asian fetish" thread was to better understand this particular experience of Asian women. The questions and commentary were more fully focused on gaining a deeper and more nuanced understanding of that.
Now look at your comments in this one. Do your comments here do that? I can't exactly say that I see that. And your not-too-subtle implication that Zara is seeing racism where it doesn't exist does not help.
Why does every discussion about or among Black people have to be a public service?
>> "I don't think the average white viewer would change the channel if a well-done 1 or 2 minute segment about a Black hero were aired."
ReplyDeleteWell, maybe if ze had rescued a white woman...
However, the prevalence of white male heroes in movies, books, etc. suggests that whites, especially men, have a need to identify as the hero in question, not identify with. (Credit: RVCBard made this distinction on another thread). So my concern is that they would use this time to feed the dog or whatever.
You know where else I see minimizing Black heroism happen? History books and stories about American history.
ReplyDeleteWe got our rights because Nice White People decided it was the right thing to do! The way White people sometimes put it, the civil rights movement had nothing to do with the courage, sacrifice, determination, and intelligence of Black people as a whole. Same thing with slavery. The Emancipation Proclamation was apparently the first and only time American slavery was resisted. Nevermind all the slaves who risked life and limb for freedom (for themselves and other slaves). The bravery and ingenuity of Black people had nothing to do with it.
Cue me rolling my eyes. Hard.
RVCBard, so true. You usually get lip service paid to Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas, but that's about it. Oh, and we also got a nervous lecture about Nat Turner, which left me wondering if he was the hero or the bad guy.
ReplyDeletethesciencegirl said:
ReplyDeleteRVCBard, so true. You usually get lip service paid to Harriet Tubman and Frederick Douglas, but that's about it. Oh, and we also got a nervous lecture about Nat Turner, which left me wondering if he was the hero or the bad guy.
You know it all too well! LOL It seems like Black History is taught in a very mechanical way. Just a list of facts of Black heroism without going in to detail. Why is that White people who teach Black history is more effective than a Black person who teaches it?
@ RVCBard on American History
ReplyDeleteAmen, as I presently sit through British history and literature classes painfully wondering why I should give a shit about it. When a remarkable chunk of American history is not being told, why are we reaching all the way back to a country most white Americans feel no connection to to herald its dead white heroes?
@ Lady Dani Mo
Do you think it has more to do with the "white credibility" factor? Like if it's relevent information to one white person, that's reason enough for another white person to perk up and listen?
This is simply false. Americans know very little military history, thus there is little reason Americans would know about the actions of a small segment of the military.
ReplyDeleteno slapzz, your assertion that Americans know little about military history is false as well.
I'm very aware of the Buffalo Soldiers, the Tuskegee Airmen, the Red Ball Express of who one member of it was John Houston, daddy of singer Whitney Houston.
Oh yeah, there's also the (original) Black Panthers, AKA the 761 Tank Battalion that liberated the Dachau and Buchenwald concentration camps in addition to repeatedly beating down elite Waffen SS units, the USS Mason, the first US naval ship with an all Black crew, the Montford Point Marines, General Chappie James, Admiral Samuel S Gravely, General Colin Powell.....
why is it that in American history they teach you about the wrong doings white people have done African Americans... and leave out the wrong doings white people have done to other groups? (asian, latino...)
ReplyDeleteWhy is it that people feel so comfortable hijacking a conversation that focuses on Black people?
ReplyDeleteHeres a short YouTube video produced by Starbucks to raise money for AIDS.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh7D2g5v-Sg&feature=player_embedded
When I first viewed it I thought that it was a very positive thing.Now though I wondering if its promoting a sterotype that white people are comfortable with.To quote the above piece "It’s to the point where black people aren't noticed until we do something that fits the stereotypical view whites have about us. Then it gives them a framework to fashion their story around."
Being new here I'm working on discernment.What do you think ?
@RVCBard,
ReplyDeleteDo you see what happens when black people heal and get their shit together?. Nobody... nothing stops us. people who hate our guts will still go out of their way to let us lead them, because they know that with us at the helm, they will still eat.
People can't stand to see black people heal.
The other reason is also that, black people have been through some of the most horrendous BS on this planet. So when you start talking other people think .. shit if these negros talk about their pain and suffering, their simply won't be any space for mine, so lemme get in their right quick.
Also, they want to rest on black people, they see our survival and fighting spirit and they would like our help or to emulate it but do not know how to ask properly.
It also falls back to the Strong black woman and strong black man stereotype. See black people always have to be accomodating for other peoples sufferings. even before we heal our own. we must help everyone else or commiserate with everyone else.
God forbid that we have one post discussing a black topic to learn the whys and wherefores heck no!
That would simply be too much.
@mike,
ReplyDeleteI have had it up to my back teeth with the patronising commercialist showboating, aid (indirect - advertising) corporate hustling of Africa and Aids.
Find the study where all the aids cases were examined, find how they extrapolated the numbers per region. based off some of the most questionable stats.
Then ask why it till only a few years ago for Starbucks to sign up to buy fairtrade.
Ask why starbucks has to do some dodgy.. send us your video and we will make a donation?. Why can't they just make a donation and what is this donation and which money grabbing, non local workforce - only reserved for unqualified expats at outrageous salaries.. hiring NGO is it giving this money to.
Africa is being buried under aid, it's commercial viability is being ruined and eroded because of fucking aid. We don't need it.
Ask yourself how much the aid receiving countries have to sign away to get said aid, what kind of contracts do they have to sign just to receive this pittance and ask yourself how much starbucks gets to right off in charity.
And it's not just starbucks, I'll say it about my favourite casual compaby GAP as well, with its beyond insulting RED campaign. buy this overpriced poor quality t-shirt which cost us 2 bucks to make in some other underprivileged country and we'll send X to 'Africa'.
erm, there are over 50 countries in Africa and they are NOT all aid receiving and they are not all knocking on your door.
Keep the damn aid and pay a fair price for our goods.
RVCBard
ReplyDelete"And your not-too-subtle implication that Zara is seeing racism where it doesn't exist does not help."
How else is "Oppression Olympics" used? Positively?
Why was the first comment in this thread ok but not mine? Empathizing is not hijacking or derailing.
Cloudy,
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I didn't understand that you were intending empathy until I read your latest comment.
Instead, it sounded like you were saying "enough of this talk about black people! let's change the subject!" (Or, in Zara's interpretation, "Let's talk about who is even more oppressed")
I'm guessing that this is also what Zara and RVCBard heard, thus their responses.
I'm glad you clarified.
Cloudy,
ReplyDeleteWhat is it that matters here, intentions or effects?
That would be a good discussion on why other people of color are not talked about in our American history, however, that is derailing and totally off topic. We are talking about Black heroism.
ReplyDelete@ Victoria
I believe that White people are more effective in teaching Black histotry because the privilege can speak for the unprivilege and be taken more serious in most people's eyes. It's ass backwards because a person that doesn't go through a certain oppression should not be some expert on their experiences and have people listen more.
@ Cloudy
ReplyDeleteI think your comment came off as derailing.
@ Soul,
ReplyDelete"Keep the damn aid and pay a fair price for our goods"...You bring up some other good points that are not understood in American culture.It seems that these marketing strategies are designed to make people feel good and create the illusion that they are participating in a good thing when really it's about corporate greed.
I was questioning the presentation and whether it was promoting cultural stereo types marketed specifically for white people....
@Cloudy - Looking at intent and effects, I stiill don't see your comment as "oppression olympics" -- olympics require someone to claim their community's suffering is worse -- and you didn't do that. I don't even see it as derailing -- you didn't try to move the conversation to Asian suffering. All you did was say, as I see it, sympathetically, "I understand, it happens to us, too." Nor do I agree that just b/c Zara sees your comment as problematic you have to agree. Stuff like this drives me crazy about anti-racism communities - and I'm black.
ReplyDeleteFlo-jo, thanks. Derailing is "But it happens to whites too!" not "Yeah, I know how that is." The news does treat all POC like this, so I don't even see how this is a "black" only thing. Saying "they do this to Asians too" in no way detracts from the fact that they do it to blacks. It strengthens the point that the news is white-driven and racist. I didn't think my comment would be taken so far out of context, seeing how other POC groups have already been mentioned.
ReplyDeleteIn situations where a Black person's heroic act is covered in the media, especially the newspaper), is the person less likely to be identified as Black than if the article discussed a crime?
ReplyDeleteI *seriously* can't recall my city's paper ever identifying a hero as Black--and I have known some of these people personally, so I'm pretty sure they are, in fact, Black--so I'm curious as to whether any of you have seen the same thing.
RVCBard, I am sorry that I didn't express myself well. Your grandfather was one of many extraordinary "ordinary heroes", one of the "Greatest Generation". I hope that he was not rebuffed if he tried to tell his story to the public. We should be hearing all the stories that they tell.
ReplyDeleteA lot of WWII history has been told from the generals' viewpoints, and not from the non-coms' viewpoints. Vets have written memoirs, communities have sought out local vets to tell their stories - identifying the vets by word of mouth. Very few of these memoirs and speeches get wide recognition or distribution. Someone has to promote the vets' stories: a veterans' organization, an academic or freelance historian, a museum (acesmuseum.org), a filmmaker (Miracle at St. Annas).
I have heard that many vets did not talk a lot about the war when they came home. Those vets may have been reluctant to bring up raw painful memories, or the vets simply were preoccupied by new concerns such as finding jobs and starting families. Some vets might have figured that they did their duty, and that they weren't the "real" heroes, the ones who didn't make it home.* The public interest shifted fairly quickly to the Cold War. Aging vets may have been more ready to talk about long-past events.
*My father, who fought at D-Day and Battle of the Bulge, is one of those who saw himself as an average infantryman doing his duty, and a lucky survivor rather than a hero. He didn't start talking about the war until recently.
stuff white people do: minimize Black heroes even on a thread dedicated to them
ReplyDeleteEveryone, please read RVCBard's comment, 1/12 1:40 PM; and soul's comment, 1/12 2:14 PM.
NancyP, you sound condescending to me. Do you really think that you're telling RVCBard things she doesn't know? And is "racism" such a hard word for you to utter, such a hard reality for you to admit? Racism is what this blog is about, ya know??
ReplyDelete@AE... No more condescending than you have been except, you refuse to address your errs and never apologise when they are pointed out.
ReplyDeleteWillow said...
@ AE:
WTF? You seriously think this does not apply to Black women as well?!
Again.. please enlighten us?.
I have many black heros many are African I'll admit, but many are also African American, Ameridian, Afro Brazillian e.t.c.
ReplyDeleteI was curious because I couldn't find anything in my curriculum which spoke of black heros. And hollywood movies didn't help either. Zulu, Roots.
As a child, many of them didn't make sense to me. I always wondered... well if they sauy we are aggressive and savage and this or that then shouldn't there be have been more uprisings, more rebellions?. how could we just have been heralded like sheep. something doesn't sound right.
So I started digging. I found bits, I had to piece together.
Why is black heroism minimised?
Because a lot of black heroism undermines the stories of white superiority, benevolence or sense of do goody justice.
How can you teach the heroism of the Jamaican Maroons without teaching the brutality of the en-slavers.
How can you teach the achievements and literary prowess of black genuises when it involves the story of overcoming white adversity to get there.
How can you teach the heroism of Sojourner Truth. When it relays the brutality of the white masses.
How can you teach the bravery of a girl who had to be in a subservient relationship... who returns to her 'lovers' bed in the US from France when it reveals that her lover (the president) used her threatened her with the dispersal of her children.
how do you uplift and celebrate bravery when it undermines your sense of superiority.
The answer is: you do not.
That's why back heroism gets minimised.
Nancy, with all due respect for your father and the supreme asskickingness (truly; but this thread isn't about WP) of my maternal grandma and grandpa, both WWII vets, the heroism of POC--especially Black Americans--who fought in World War II qualifies them as a little more than "ordinary heroes."
ReplyDeleteI said I wanted to talk about Black heroes, so let's talk about Black heroes (not to deny the heroism of other POC; just to stay on topic of this thread specifically). Do you know what Black soldiers had to do during WWII? Prove that Blacks were fit to be more than cannon fodder. Prove they could LEAD. Hell, prove they could *think*. Before WWII, there had been FIVE Black officers in the Army. The Tuskegee Airmen were actually seen as an "experiment" -- OMGBLACKOFFICERS! Can this work?! (Hint: yes). The other "experiment"? Sending Black nurses to England, to treat POWs, to see whether Black women could treat white men.
(I'm generalizing here, but this is the accumulated conclusion I've drawn from a lot of reading on this topic. I respect that individual experiences may vary).
Every. Single. Time. a Black officer or noncom put on his uniform, he was taking a stand against contemporary beliefs that white people had a monopoly on intelligence and leadership. Every. Single. Time. a Black man went into combat, he knew he was representing not just his country but his race. Why am I asserting this? Even military church services were segregated. Black officers were arrested for trying to enter officers' clubs. Regiments with Black soldiers had (Colored) tagged on after their name, while white men just got to be the "9th Infantry Regiment." They weren't "just" soldiers. They were Black, and they were reminded of it at every step.
Black Americans were fighting in a military that discriminated against them and FOR A COUNTRY that discriminated against them. We talk about the "Greatest Generation" and WWII being the last 'noble war' and all that jazz; what do you think it would be like to be told "You have to give your life to save these people who are discriminated against and protect your country!" when you know that at home, you can't walk into a restaurant or drink from a clean water fountain because of the color of your skin? (NOT an invitation to play Oppression Olympics with the Holocaust, btw).
And as for minimizing Black heroism? Not *one* Black soldier was awarded a Medal of Honor for his service in World War II. It was not until the 1990s that a DoD survey concluded that the military had, in fact, been racist. Looking over records, they awarded *seven* Black men with Medals of Honor. Fifty. Years. Later.
"Ordinary" heroes?
/soapbox
soul, I haven't apologized in response to RVCBard's saying that she gets tired of white apologies. I thought it would be more white center-staging.
ReplyDeleteRe Willow's comment, I didn't respond because it's absurd (it also sounds rhetorical). OF COURSE I don't think that black women aren't heroes too. Who could possibly read recent threads and NOT think that? I was just saying, as A. Smith pointed out in a recent post, that it would be nice if a convo for black men could get going along the lines of those recent ones here among black women.
Since you do approve of apologies, then I apologize to you for having misstepped in previous comments here.
Are expressions of gratitude okay as well? Because I really appreciate and have learned from the things you've written here from a black perspective outside the U.S.
@ AE:
ReplyDeleteThe thread title is "minimize Black heroes," and the very first thing you want to do is ignore the heroics of Black women?
The absurdity here was not in my question.
@Willow, thank you, beautifully put. Fighting for ideals that your own country doesn't even apply to you: that's heroism.
ReplyDeleteAnd a general comment, since we've been going there on this thread: I think it would be great to hear more perspectives from asian commenters, native american, black men, etc., but all that requires is someone to step up and write the posts and comments [as Michael did here]. Don't stomp all over the black women writing and participating in threads because they are a vocal presence here. I would love to hear a broader variety of perspectives here, but that doesn't mean we have to check every box in every single thread. That being said, I don't have any problem with people empathizing, as long as we don't start comparing our oppressions. They all suck, ya know?
@thesciencegirl:
ReplyDeleteI think it would be great to hear more perspectives from asian commenters, native american, black men, etc., but all that requires is someone to step up and write the posts and comments [ . . . ]. Don't stomp all over the black women writing and participating in threads because they are a vocal presence here. [ . . . ] I don't have any problem with people empathizing, as long as we don't start comparing our oppressions.
This could really stand to be stated over here too.
I saw an example of Black heroism being minimized in the media today. We all heard about massive earthquake that hit Haiti and nearly destroyed the entire country. However, why is the media playing Brad and Angelina as being the rescuers of Haiti and not Wyclef Jean who has set up his own foundation for many years and is doing so much right now to help his native country? Why is the media so concerned about a story of a White woman who was caught in earthquake and was being rescued by her boyfriend? or they are sending help messages in the media for people to find this young White man who in Haiti? So even with this drastic story over 50,000 Haitians that are dead and over 3 million that are homeles, injured,and not found they are so concerned about the protection of White people and making them center stage of this tradegy.
ReplyDeleteWillow at 1/13/10 5:40, and RVCBard, I agree that the conditions under which blacks fought in WWII, the burden of "representing the race", the contrast between patriotic service and a raw deal at home, the limited range of armed services jobs open to blacks (ditto in U.S. industries related to the war effort), the lack of battlefield recognition, the denial of deserved medals, the pay scale, the discrimination on re-entering the job market after the war, the difficulty in obtaining any GI bill benefits and the limited choices if the benefits came through, the contrast between Parisians' welcome to the liberators and the absence of a thank you on returning to the U.S., the failure of the U.S. Government to issue medals until 50 years after the event, the failure of general-audience media to tell the stories of black servicemen and servicewomen until 50 years after the event - I agree that all these things are caused by racism. This knowledge has been part of many easily accessible (public library book stock, PBS, some history and "left" magazines) popular history accounts for the past decade or so.
ReplyDeleteRVCBard, your grandfather wanted and deserved more recognition for his service than he got. All armed services members want and deserve recognition for the personal sacrifices and risks taken for serving the country during war, and the sacrifices were greater for black armed services personnel.
There is a difference between recognition for service and for heroism, universally desired, and recognition for repeatedly and publicly telling one's own story and displaying one's feelings about a horrific experience. The second type of recognition may not be universally desired. Some might feel a spiritual imperative to tell their story to as many strangers as possible, some might want to tell their story to family only, some might want to be silent.
RVCBard, I am asking the question below about your grandfather as an individual black person who served in WWII, not as "black WWII veteran meant to be representative of all black WWII vets".
Did your grandfather want to give public lectures or publish a book about his experiences liberating the concentration camps? Was he frustrated at the lack of opportunity to tell his story to a wide audience?
Re: the nature of blog comments on racism when POC and WP are "expected" to interact due to the intention of the blog owner.
I can't function in online anonymous public discussions that are not "real time". I am lost without hearing the voices and seeing the facial expressions and body language of other people, and without the ability to convey feeling by my own voice, face, body language, in real time communication. I know that I am not the only one who has trouble communicating in the (generic) blog comment format, whether the topic is racism, religion, reproduction, or some other emotionally charged topic. There may be an inherent limit in the efficiency of discussionwhen the discussants have different knowledge levels and personal relationship to the topic.
WP slow the progress of the threads.
Did your grandfather want to give public lectures or publish a book about his experiences liberating the concentration camps? Was he frustrated at the lack of opportunity to tell his story to a wide audience?
ReplyDeleteWhat would my answer mean to you?
@ Lady Dani Mo:
ReplyDelete>> "However, why is the media playing Brad and Angelina as being the rescuers of Haiti and not Wyclef Jean who has set up his own foundation for many years and is doing so much right now to help his native country?"
Whoa...you're effing kidding me. Not about Wyclef Jean, I mean; about what the media is covering.
More Black Haitian heroics (1:09 onward)
@ Nancy:
Get over yourself.
tell it like it is. we need to find out a way to stop this it isn't right. I'm what you would call CBS(Cool black and smart)in an all white community. I have above a 4.0 GPA and I have only one teacher that respects me. The other ones treat me like crap despite my good grades and being very athletic.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking about this VERY thing Macon when the story came out about that a-hole that shot up the Holocaust museum. The security guard who gave his life to save others was black yet there was little if ANY coverage about him. I have a sneaky suspcion that had the races been REVERSED you would know everything there was to know about the white guard from his favorite color to the year he graduated high school. That also goes for the controversy surrounding the feud between Clint Eastwood and Spike Lee. I have seen movie after movie about Iwo Jima focusing SOLELY on th white soldiers rarely do I ever see that many movies about the Tuskegee Airmen. Or that they protected EVERY bomber flier they flew with every last one survived. Or the all black regiments in Nam even Morgan Freeman said he had never heard of black soldiers during the Civil War gee wonder why THAT is. There was even a runaway slave made into a General by the British during the Revolutionary War who was also a successful leader until he died of gangrene. I only heard his story once on some PBS special but I doubt things will change until we start telling our own stories our way.
ReplyDelete