The white community's first racial victim is its own child.
--Thandeka
These days, fewer and fewer white people think that non-white people suffer much racism at all anymore. They often think as well that if and when racism does happen to non-white people, it's a mere, temporary annoyance, and not the major set of hindrances it often is instead. And so, white people rarely consider the racism endured by non-white people worthy of much attention at all.
The "racism" that most white people attend to instead is that which they think they themselves suffer. They commonly call their grievances of this sort "reverse racism" -- the supposed slings and arrows flung at white people by affirmative action, for instance, or by the "real racists" who insist on keeping the idea of racism alive by "crying" about it so much.
What very few white people realize, beyond the fact that racism against non-whites remains insidiously pervasive, is that white racism has costs for white people -- a lot of them. But these costs of racism are not the ones that many white people think they suffer.
In his book Uprooting Racism: How White People Can Work for Racial Justice, Paul Kivel writes that while "racism does produce material benefits for white people . . . the costs of racism to white people are devastating":
They are not the same costs as the day-to-day violence, discrimination, and harassment that people of color have to deal with. Nevertheless, they are significant costs that we have been trained to ignore, deny, or rationalize away. They are costs that other white people, particularly those with wealth, make us pay in our daily lives. It is sobering for us as white people to talk together about what it really costs to maintain such a system of division and exploitation in our society. We may even find it difficult to recognize some of the core costs of being white in our society.
Here's a summary of the costs of racism that Kivel says white people commonly suffer.
Kivel points out that because of racism, white people tend to:
- lose contact with our ancestral traditions and cultures (and often romanticize other cultures as a result)
- receive and believe a false sense of history, one that glorifies and sanitizes white actions and leaves out non-white contributions
- "lose the presence and contributions of people of color to our neighborhoods, schools, and relationships"
- feel "a false sense of superiority, a belief that we should be in control and in authority, and that people of color should be maids, servants, and gardeners and do the less valued work of our society"
- live, work, and play in settings that are largely white, and are thus "distorted, limited, and less rich" environments
- suffer in our relationships, with both white and non-white others, because of racial tension and/or bigotry
- suffer stress and anxiety induced by unrealistic fears of non-white people (and suffer at times as well from injury at the hands of certain white people, whom we'd been led by racist fear of non-white people into perceiving as relatively trustworthy)
- fail to see that we're being economically exploited by those who divert our aggrieved attention and energies into mistrust and hatred of racialized scapegoats
- suffer spiritually, to the extent that we've lost touch with our people's original spiritual traditions -- and thus suffer morally and ethically, to the extent that those traditions no longer encourage us to intervene when we "witness situations of discrimination and harassment"
- feel a lowered sense of self-esteem, due to our "feelings of guilt, shame, embarrassment, or inadequacy about racism and about our responses to it"
- become cynical, despairing, apathetic, and pessimistic when we do acknowledge the ongoing existence of white racism, and then realize that it "makes a mockery of our ideals of democracy, justice, and equality"
Again, as Kivel points out, to say that whites suffer from racism is not to say their suffering is anywhere near the devastating effects that it still has for many non-whites. Also, there is at least one danger in this method of eradicating racism: it could be taken by white people engaged in discussions of racism as an invitation to make everything all about themselves again.
What do you think? Is it worthwhile to encourage white people to also think of white racism in terms of the harm that it does to themselves and other white people?
If you have additions to the above list, please let us know in a comment -- are there other ways that white racism costs or harms white people?
After offering an extensive checklist that white people can use to examine the costs of racism to themselves and other white people they know, Kivel ends his chapter on the topic this way:
Realizing what those costs are can easily make us angry. If we are not careful, we can turn that anger toward people of color, blaming them for the problems of white racism. Sometimes we say things like, “If they weren’t here we would not have these problems.” But racism is caused by white people, by our attitudes, behaviors, practices, and institutions.
How is it that white people in general can justify retaining the benefits of being white without taking responsibility for perpetuating racism?
How do you justify it for yourself?
Is it worthwhile to encourage white people to also think of white racism in terms of the harm that it does to themselves and other white people?
ReplyDeleteYes. I think so. This is sad, but I think whites as a whole will not see the problem unless they see where their internal thoughts are at fault. Like you pointed out, "fewer and fewer white people think that non-white people suffer much racism at all anymore."
A lot of us, myself included until recently, thought that racism was on it's final leg. We knew there were racist bigots out there, but they were the exception, not the rule. I think the reason for that is because most of us don't know anything about the lives of people of color. We assume they have the same lives, opportunity and priveleges as us.
Because of this, I think a lot of white people see cries of racism or unfair treatment as cries for attention and handouts. This, too, is sad.
Education is key. The first way to really hit something home with someone is to tell them how it affects them. Otherwise, it will always appear on the outside instead of within.
Thank you for sharing this. I've heard it said that white folks suffer from racism against minorities but other than having a false sense of superiority, which I guess is bad but since they share the sense of superiority and benefit from it other than psychically hurting them. This helps put it into context, especially the voting against the best interest thing; I knew it happened but didn't think of concretly as a debilitating affect of racism.
ReplyDeleteI also thought it was interesting how you pointed out that some whites have the attitude that if all of us minorities went away things would be peachy keen. I've always found that line of thinking odd, because white people, obviously came from Europe, and though there were pockets of non-whites here and there in the past in Europe, they were much fewer than today, so when they were in an all white situation, things were bad enough for their ancestors, many of whom were despised for their poverty, to leave. So much for white utopia. People always discriminate against someone and poor white folks would be in an even bigger world of trouble if there were no non-whites around to soften the blow.
Thanks for this. Will definitely add to my reading list.
ReplyDeleteCould anyone elaborate on this point?: "fail to see that we're being economically exploited by those who divert our aggrieved attention and energies into mistrust and hatred of racialized scapegoats"
Perhaps with an example or two? I'm having trouble making the connection between theory and lived experience on this one...
The most devastating cost of racism to White people, I think, is that White people are forced to choose between being White and being human.
ReplyDeleteIt's almost like they treat POCs like aliens treat abductees.
Julia- I think that point refers to the way in which racism has historically pitted the white working class against workers of color in order to continue to exploit both groups economically.
ReplyDelete>fewer and fewer white people think that non-white people suffer much racism at all anymore.
ReplyDeleteThis is a bit disheartening. I was hoping it was going the other way. I find it very strange and rather hard to understand that so many people find it so hard to understand racism. That it actually needs to be broken down into something seemingly so complex for them. It's basically snobbery in a vile form...I mean, don't we know when we're being snobby and feeling a little superior and all? And that being snobby and proud is just bad for you and others...I suppose not.
> Is it worthwhile to encourage white people to also think of white racism in terms of the harm that it does to themselves and other white people?
No. I don't think I would do this. If the person can't see that racism is widespread, it wouldn't do much good to tell them how it harms themselves. Or, if they are being racist and know it, but feel justified for it, then I probably won't want to be around them long enough to have a discussion anyway. I get this feeling it just isn't a poc's place or job to 'educate' those who actually need to know about what the post says. I just can't see how it would work. The other person would need to be very open-minded.
Agreed.
ReplyDeleteWhite people often look at anti-racism work as a "non-White" fight primarily, something they join that is "someone elses" job. However, it is this line of thinking that I see a problem for even the most liberal, well-meaning White person.
I think White people need to look at anti-racism work as something that helps regain their humanity as a social group in America. I'm not saying that "all whites are without humanity", but that the white culture/community comes off as kind of dehumanized in some of it's perceptions of non-White struggles at times ("Why do THEY keep talking about racism?", as if something that doesn't affect them isn't important).
"Is it worthwhile to encourage white people to also think of white racism in terms of the harm that it does to themselves and other white people?"
ReplyDeleteSpeaking as a white person, that line of though would only lead ,me to self-pity and feelings of impotence.
I can see that what you're saying is a. true and b. possibly useful to getting some white people involved in anti-racism. HOWEVER, I think that the sufgfering of non-white people due to racism is far more significant and everybody should be wary of attempts to deflect attention from it.
This entry and the reading are incredibly significant, I will definitely add to my reading list.
ReplyDelete"fail to see that we're being economically exploited by those who divert our aggrieved attention and energies into mistrust and hatred of racialized scapegoats"
To back pack off of Kari's point, Julia, the statement is also portrayed by blaming immigrants for 'taking jobs from Americans' or, in the case of the classroom, a seat that went to someone less deserving (by way of achievements) because of their racial/ethnic background.
fromthetropics:
the difficulty in understanding 'racism' and why, for some, it has to be broken down, in my experience, stems from where a white person wants to see it. literally where they are willing to visualize it: material necessities, sensual desires, even emotional ones, what/who is measured as trustworthy, compassionate, patient and honest and to what extent. Derald Wing-Sue has an article he cowrote which discusses this "Racial Microaggressions" which I love because it gives a list and also personal narratives. To even argue that sexual desires are racialized, who one is attracted to, and explaining that, is complex. Even the way desire is expressed can be, if done without thinking, racist. Exoticizing one day what will be labeled as a negative attribute the next, if and when it comes from the same struggle against racialization that was once admired. I've seen teachers, students, friends, engage in this. No one wants to be called on a racist act or imposed treatment, some don't want to read it as that deep because 'it's too much to bear,' for one's insecurity. When that insecurity itself stems from what allows some whites to affirm aspects of themselves without question.
I really appreciate this post because it touches on important issues. The comments themselves also offer greater insight into the question.
ReplyDelete@ RVCBard
ReplyDelete>> "to choose between being White and being human."
You know, I talk a lot about how white people's racist words and actions have the effect of dehumanizing POC...but in the moral scheme of things, we're actually dehumanizing ourselves.
This is a really good point.
Oh, and incidentally, your "conversations with Anne" are AWESOME. I am a big fan.
--
From the OP:
>> "fail to see that we're being economically exploited by those who divert our aggrieved attention and energies into mistrust and hatred of racialized scapegoats"
Personal vent forthcoming...
This point seems to be targeting specifically class issues, like Kari noted, but I would like to expand it to other loci of oppression. It is absolutely *revolting* to see how (in general) white feminists treat WOC. The unwillingness (inability?) of most white feminists to devote more than lip service (ha, if that) to the concerns of WOC has been devastating for women's rights...ALL women's rights, thank you very much. "Sure, you're included! Now, let's talk about MY issues..." *headdesk*
/vent
I think all this gets a bit over-the-top after a while.
ReplyDeleteYou know, I talk a lot about how white people's racist words and actions have the effect of dehumanizing POC...but in the moral scheme of things, we're actually dehumanizing ourselves.
ReplyDeleteOnce you take Whiteness off center stage, the picture gets a little more horrifying.
Oh, and incidentally, your "conversations with Anne" are AWESOME. I am a big fan.
"Anne and me" seems to be touching a nerve with people. I'm honestly confused why these simple little things can accomplish so much. In the interest of not derailing things, I'd love to continue discussion about "Anne and me" on my LJ.
Thanks, all, for your responses.
ReplyDeleteI get all of that, but I'm still mystified by the "economic exploitation" part. I apologize if I'm being blockheaded, but how, exactly, do white people get economically exploited by this belief?
[disclaimer: asking to understand assertion better NOT to challenge truth of said assertion]
Julia, I'll take a crack at the economics question. As an example, without getting into a debate on the merits / flaws of health care reform, when people like Glenn Beck characterize health care reform as "reparations", and fan flames of fear that the tax dollars of "real [white] Americans" are going to pay for health care for "OMG illegal immigrants!", they encourage people to vote against health care reform, even if voting for it is actually in their best interests.
ReplyDeleteAnother example, this one more personal. When I moved to my new city, I was warned against living on the "east side" because it "wasn't safe". I believed the people who advised me, even though there are many nice apartments (and cheaper!) on the east side of town. Now that I've been here for a few months, I realize that "east side" was code for "black side", and it's no more or less safe (crime statistics-wise) than the neighborhood I live in -- and pay more for -- now.
I apologize if I'm being blockheaded, but how, exactly, do white people get economically exploited by this belief?
ReplyDeleteOne example: Working class White folks focus their outrage on "illegal aliens coming to take their jobs" (as if corporations would say, "Oops! No more Latinos willing to work for pennies! Here's your job and your raise!") instead of on the lack of living wages for all working people, health care for everyone, and programs that help empower working class people everywhere.
Julia said:
ReplyDelete'I get all of that, but I'm still mystified by the "economic exploitation" part. I apologize if I'm being blockheaded, but how, exactly, do white people get economically exploited by this belief?'
Here's what popped into my mind regarding this point. I think the exploitation is partly made possible by redirection, making us concerned with the gotcha aspect of racial interaction. So much attention in the press and in social interaction is on racist incidents, like the justice of the peace who won't marry inter-racial couples or the white swimming pool controversy from last summer, that we get the impression that these incidents represent the primary manifestation of racism in our society. We focus on whether this or that person or action gets the label of "racist," and we miss the workings of racism that really create inequity in our system: the concentration of wealth in white hands, the redlining practiced by financial institutions, the disparity in medical treatment and other less sensational aspects of racism that hurt our whole society in that they keep huge segments of it from realizing their potential. In looking at the bright shiny object when the MSM points to it, in seeing that as the problem (or in seeing non-white people as the problem), we are missing the more insidious exploitation of our whole economic system.
@fromthetropics, who said It's basically snobbery in a vile form...I mean, don't we know when we're being snobby and feeling a little superior and all? And that being snobby and proud is just bad for you and others...I suppose not. :
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it, part of the issue is that we're raised to believe that such snobbery and pride is justified. We're taught that we should be proud of ourselves because we've succeeded, and if those PoC haven't, well, then they're just lazy/criminal/not motivated enough/etc. So it's okay to look down on them, because they could be successful like us if they wanted to, but they just don't want to.
Also, most white people would never equate pride/snobbery with racism. Part of the way the white-supremacist system protects itself is by encouraging the view that racism is about burning crosses and lynching people and beating somebody up for being a different skin color*. So if that's what somebody believes racism is, well, they don't do those kinds of things, so obviously they're not racist!
All of which is a long way of saying that people like to feel good about themselves even when they're doing bad things, and white culture makes it easy to feel good about feeling superior to PoC, and encourages the view that racism is just about egregious acts of evil.
* Note, however, that all sorts of things become "reverse racism" when done to a white person, but a white person would never whines about those things being racist when they're happening to PoC. For example, a qualified white person losing out on a job to an equally qualified PoC? OMG REVERSE RACISM. A qualified PoC losing out on a job to an equally qualified white person? Well, obviously that PoC just wasn't quite as qualified.
I think that the view of racism as harming white people could be a doorway. If we've got someone who doesn't care about racism because it doesn't affect them, then we might be able to appeal to their self-centeredness (and we're all self-centered - I'm not making a value judgment there, just stating a fact) by saying, "No, it does affect you, and here's how." And maybe once we've caught their interest with that, it might be possible to baby-step them into seeing racism as a larger issue.
ReplyDeleteEverybody needs to have some sort of doorway into an issue, or else they just never get interested in it. Some of us grow up without any doors at all; the doors were taken off the hinges long before we were born, and we never have the option not to deal with that open doorway. Others of us can go through life quite easily without ever opening the door, and I think our instinct is often to not open the door, because it might be a hassle to deal with what's on the other side. Unless something happens that makes you want to open the door - maybe somebody calling from outside, "Hey, I've got something I want to show you," or perhaps something you witnessed through the window - it's going to stay closed.
Of course, the trick is to have the it's-about-me be the way to get them to open the door, and not have it become the only thing that gets discussed. IOW, we need to get them to come outside, rather than going into their house and commiserating about how it really is all about us.
(One of these days I'll learn how to write elegant analogies rather than clunky ones. ;) Oh well. Hopefully it gets the point across.)
@Robin
ReplyDeleteI think that's a great analogy and I agree with you completely.
What do you think? Is it worthwhile to encourage white people to also think of white racism in terms of the harm that it does to themselves and other white people?
ReplyDeleteDoesn't so-called White Studies already do this to an extent?
In theory, this may be well-intentioned.
But in practice, it will probably end up as an excuse for White navel-gazing in which time, energy, and resources are devoted to doing what White people do best: talking about themselves and their own experiences.
In short, it will become a perserve form of White victimology.
"lose contact with our ancestral traditions and cultures (and often romanticize other cultures as a result)"
ReplyDeleteThis is SUCH an important point. As a person with strong Irish heritage, I am a strong supporter of breaking down the myth of the white race. We, along with Italians and others, weren't always considered white like we were today. We were considered barbarians and primates and even sold as slaves. We only became white because we'd come to downplay our culture and the English colonialists and Americans "let" us be white. A decision, may I remind you, that was based on our ancestors throwing our black brothers and sisters under the bus in order to try and survive. Our whiteness was a "gift" to encourage the oppression of black and "keep them in their place".*
Well whiteness is not a gift and any person of Irish decent who engages in racism and oppression today is a hypocrite and a traitor. We need to stop feeding into this mythical whiteness. Whiteness only exists as an idea to build a social pecking order. We should reclaim our heritage and use it to debunk whiteness and unite with PoC. "If whiteness is so arbitrary that 150 years ago I would not have been white, how can you think it's superior to anything?"
And another thing to all the Irish people who enjoy and participate in white privilege: you still aren't totally white. If you were, your distinctive ethnic features (reddish hair, pale skin, freckles, thick eyebrows, rounded noses) wouldn't be considered so ugly and undesirable and wouldn't be lampooned on St. Partick's day. I'm part Asian but have strong Irish genes and find myself dealing with ethnic stereotypes about both.
*for more info on Irishness and anti-racism: http://www.pitt.edu/~hirtle/uujec/white.html
There is some great stuff at Resist racism:
ReplyDeleteThe cost of racism - "Racism harms white people by stripping them of their ability to feel."
The cost of racism (part 2) - "Another way that racism harms white people is by denying them the ability to develop their critical thinking." Racism also harms white people by preventing them from acquiring knowledge.
The cost of racism, part 2(a) - Racism causes white people to be stranded and helpless.
The cost of racism, part 3 - Racism makes white people less safe.
The cost of racism, part 4 - Racism causes white people to underestimate their political/academic/etc. opponents, and not see their own shortcomings.
@ Cloudy
ReplyDeleteIrish are not considered White in 21st-century America? Get real.
The past discrimination against the Irish cannot minimize the reality that Irish Americans are today part of the European American colonizer class (i.e. Whiten)--and benefit from it.
And ethnic White nationalism like Irish or Italian American nationalism has nothing to do with anti-racism or progressive politics.
There is a distrubing political trend among phony White progressives to promote White ethnic nationalism under the cover of "rejecting Whiteness."
But giving up "Whiteness" without giving up White power, wealth, and privilege is a political scam--and will only reinforce the same old White supremacist system through the back door.
How many White people--including Irish Americans today--will be willing to relinquish their property, wealth, and power?
What many White (cough) Anti-Racists are proposing is the *formal* dissolution of Whiteness as a category--without the destruction of White America's illegitimate socio-economic wealth, power, and hegemony in general.
This is the actual political content of their "anti-racism" and disingenous solidarity with racial minorities in the USA.
This is America's new post-racial racism.
Call it White Supremacy without Whiteness.
Despite my previous post about what racism does to White people, I'm still unsure it actually harms them. Sure, White people get in trouble for saying stupid things in public, but on the cognitive level, the psychological level? Don't see it. In fact, even in unlearning their racism, it's the POCs who bear the mental, emotional, and spiritual brunt of their bumbling steps toward humanity.
ReplyDeleteOnly in some weird post-apocalyptic scenario where White people are somehow decimated and have to know how to interact with POCs for their own daily survival does it seem to come into play.
But in my more cynical moments, it seems that White supremacy is going to have an extended visit in this world, so the likelihood of the hopes or fears of that post-apocalyptic "dystopia" happening is very slim.
Lxy said...
ReplyDelete@ Cloudy
Irish are not considered White, in 21st-century America? Get real.
Cloudy didn't say that Irish aren't considered white now. He/She said they weren't considered "white" in previous times. In fact, nothing about Cloudy's post was saying that the Irish are somehow excused from white supremacy in any way.
RVCBard wrote,
ReplyDeleteDespite my previous post about what racism does to White people, I'm still unsure it actually harms them. Sure, White people get in trouble for saying stupid things in public, but on the cognitive level, the psychological level? Don't see it. In fact, even in unlearning their racism, it's the POCs who bear the mental, emotional, and spiritual brunt of their bumbling steps toward humanity.
I have no doubt of the latter point, but about the former, much has been written that convinces me of harm to whites on a cognitive/psychological level. Lillian Smith's early work in Killers of the Dream explores it extensively, as does Thandeka's Learning to Be White.
I'm not sure if this exactly addresses your doubts, but in White Like Me, Tim Wise writes of "the harm that racism does to the white psyche, the way in which it robs us of our best selves":
Racism, even if it is not your own, changes you, allows you to think things and feel things that make you less than you were meant to be. It steals that part of your humanity that is the most precious because it is that part that allows us to see the image of God, the goodness of creation, in all humankind. And our unwillingness to see that, and more than to see it, to really feel it, deep in the marrow of our bones, is what allows us, and even sometimes compels us, to slaughter one another, often in the name of the same God whose image we wouldn't recognize if our lives depended on it. Which, come to think of it, they probably do.
Lyx said:
ReplyDeleteIrish are not considered White in 21st-century America? Get real.
I said fully white. And I mean Irish-Irish not "oh I have an Irish last name and celebrate St. Partick's day" types who only seem to be Irish when they want to feel special. I didn't mean to say that they don't have white privilege, that would be a stupid thing to say. What I meant is that with Irish, Jews, Italians, etc, as soon as you have actual culture and ethnic traits enther the picture, you become a white "other". Whiteness is so much about assimilating to the collective whiteness.
The past discrimination against the Irish cannot minimize the reality that Irish Americans are today part of the European American colonizer class (i.e. Whiten)--and benefit from it.
Well exactly, it is in direct conflict with it. We should learn from our past and stop playing ball. Whiteness is nothing special and white people need to learn this instead of living their lives in their little bubble of false superiority.
Also, the Irish did not engage in colonization but were actually victims of it. And this is so important for us to remember because we have experienced so many of the same things as PoC that it's shameful to pretend like the problems faced by today are "someone else's problems".
And ethnic White nationalism like Irish or Italian American nationalism has nothing to do with anti-racism or progressive politics.
There is a distrubing political trend among phony White progressives to promote White ethnic nationalism under the cover of "rejecting Whiteness."
Actually they do. I'm sorry if I didn't make my original points clear, I neglected to mention that simply saying "hey, we're not white" doesn't solve anything directly, but it is an important step in the right direction for reasons I'm about to get into.
But giving up "Whiteness" without giving up White power, wealth, and privilege is a political scam--and will only reinforce the same old White supremacist system through the back door.
How many White people--including Irish Americans today--will be willing to relinquish their property, wealth, and power?
What many White (cough) Anti-Racists are proposing is the *formal* dissolution of Whiteness as a category--without the destruction of White America's illegitimate socio-economic wealth, power, and hegemony in general.
Believe me, we are in agreement. People who only do the "I'm not white" part but take no action, in my opinion, are people who certainly DO consider themselves white and just want to shrug off their "white guilt". And they need to be called on it and exposed as the uncaring, selfish racists they are.
Rejecting whiteness is only the first step. You then need to act on it. I don't think it's really possible to give up white privilege, but that doesn't mean it's not possible to take action. You can't control if someone decides to treat you well because of your light skin, but you can certainly can learn to be aware of it and turn away opportunities you would have to participate in it. I'm biracial but "pass" and I see areas where I could just pretend to be 100% WASP and take full advantage of white privilege, but I would never sell out like that. I think a lot of white people are clueless about their privilege and it's so important for them to step away from it all and see with new eyes.
This is the actual political content of their "anti-racism" and disingenous solidarity with racial minorities in the USA.
This is America's new post-racial racism.
Call it White Supremacy without Whiteness.
Again, we are in complete and total agreement about those who only pretend to reject whiteness and take no action, and I really didn't mean to imply that rejecting whiteness=everything becomes peachy keen.
@ Cloudy:
ReplyDeleteI don't want to derail too badly (this was a previous thread, after all), but in brief:
(Note: I am speaking specifically about Irish-Americans here; other "white ethnicities," YMMV.)
If it is possible to draw a connection to the past--i.e. "hey, you know, here is all the shit that was done to Irish people, but now we're White; look how race is just a construct"--and use that connection as a motivation, all for the good. But it is RIDICULOUS to think that Irish people are not "fully white" in 21st century America. People WANT red hair (which, if you actually go to many parts of Ireland, is pretty rare). "Culturally Irish" activities are more popular in America than in Ireland. People who are 1/64 Irish label themselves "Irish-American." And usually, the more "into" their Irish identity they are (or rather, the American construct of an Irish identity; the two are not the same thing), the more they are also into seeing themselves as Teh Persecuted-In-All-Ways. And thus, it becomes *less* likely that pointing out that the Irish were "enslaved" (IT WAS NOT THE SAME THING DO NOT GET ME STARTED ON THIS) and such will motivate them to actually fight racism.
If you give a mouse a cookie, he's gonna want a glass a milk...and if you tell a white person he's not white, he's gonna use it as an excuse not to fight racism.
'Also, the Irish did not engage in colonization but were actually victims of it.' (Cloudy)
ReplyDeleteThings like the Irish Famine and the Holocaust are European, not American, history.
Is it worthwhile to encourage white people to also think of white racism in terms of the harm that it does to themselves and other white people?
ReplyDeleteThe problem with that in my opinion though is that it continually puts the emphasis on white folks feelings and life being the center. People just dont hold people of color's lives as equal and I dont think that saying "how does this affect whitey" every five seconds will do anything to hurt white supremacy.
Karen said...
ReplyDeleteThe problem with that in my opinion though is that it continually puts the emphasis on white folks feelings and life being the center. People just dont hold people of color's lives as equal and I dont think that saying "how does this affect whitey" every five seconds will do anything to hurt white supremacy.
Maybe I just live my life through rose-colored lenses, but I tend to think that most white people are good, caring, and willing to do what is right. When people are educated not only about the harm they are doing to others, but the harm they do to themselves, it can really make the message hit home.
Brilliantly written...for this kieve guy apparently 'not having fun with other races' constitutes suffering. Its difficult to reach people who never had to face discrimination before.
ReplyDeleteBut just want to get some opinion, while racism is ages old, do you think the newer generation should be forced to commit to anti racism efforts even if they haven't committed any racist acts themselves? Seems hardly fair to hang the son for the father's sins.
I'm not sure if I'm right on this, but minorities will face discrimination more often than the predominant race in a country. Following my point above, why would the majority want to fight for the minority when it will potentially undermine their own rights? Shooting themselves in the foot, I don't see why any country would really honestly want to abolish racism, at least at the root. Sure, the western world screams anti discrimination n what not, but they dont really put much work into it. For example, the australian government holds to its ''deny first, admit when its too damn late '' policy when it came to foreign indian students being attacked. They apologized about the wrongs against the aborigines, but no money has really went into improving their livelihood. Just toss them a coin everyonce in awhile and that will keep the press and human rights people happy.
So core question: why should they be interested in truly eradicating racism? How will it benefit them?
Following my point above, why would the majority want to fight for the minority when it will potentially undermine their own rights? Shooting themselves in the foot, I don't see why any country would really honestly want to abolish racism, at least at the root. Sure, the western world screams anti discrimination n what not, but they dont really put much work into it.
ReplyDeleteAnd this is my point. White supremacy is always making stuff come back to: "well how is it going to benefit US". It seems that all of the "goodwill" doesnt keep white people from at least unconsciously knowing that they benefit for people of color's oppression. When confronted with, "you should do something" I personally always get the response, "well how will that make my life any better, in fact, it will take away from what I have" which displays at least a general knowledge that they're lives are made better by our lives being made shitty. So excuse me if I dont jump up and down for "the goodwill" of some white folks who arent really in it for the duration
@Chan, who said But just want to get some opinion, while racism is ages old, do you think the newer generation should be forced to commit to anti racism efforts even if they haven't committed any racist acts themselves? Seems hardly fair to hang the son for the father's sins.
ReplyDeleteThat's kind of like saying, "Well, your ancestors put these heavy chains on this other person, but you didn't do it yourself, so go ahead and turn your face away from that suffering person and just ignore it." Bluntly put, you can't *force* anyone to commit to anything, the change has to come from within themselves. But encouraging them to recognize the chains that have been put on other people, and then letting them decide whether they want to help, is all we can do.
I'm not sure if I'm right on this, but minorities will face discrimination more often than the predominant race in a country. Following my point above, why would the majority want to fight for the minority when it will potentially undermine their own rights?
'Undermining my own rights' makes it sound like it's going to make whites an oppressed class if PoC become less oppressed (and, ideally, equal). I don't see it that way. I see it as encouraging a better society if we're valued for our merits rather than our skin color. I am a valuable person in my own right, and I won't become less valuable if other people are recognized for their own value as well.
For example, if a job selection process becomes more fair, and as a result I lose out on a job to a PoC who is more qualified and/or more likable or what-have-you - well, obviously they were the right person for that job, not me. Sure, it sucks to lose out on a job, but it would have sucked the same to lose to a white person too. Basically, if the playing field were even, I'd have the satisfaction of knowing that everything I've done, _I've_ done; it hasn't been assisted by my white privilege.
I'm searching my brain here, going through all the forms of white privilege I can think of, and trying to come up with ways where I would be seriously disadvantaged if the playing field were equalized, and I just can't. Can anyone else?
Robin said...
ReplyDelete"I'm searching my brain here, going through all the forms of white privilege I can think of, and trying to come up with ways where I would be seriously disadvantaged if the playing field were equalized, and I just can't. Can anyone else?"
No, I can't either. Things may not be as easy for whites. There might be more competition on that really awesome house on Cherry Tree Lane, but that's only fair. I, as a white person, wouldn't be marginalized by racial equality. At least, I can't see how I would be.
>> "why should they be interested in truly eradicating racism? How will it benefit them?"
ReplyDeleteWhy should we CARE if eradicating racism benefits white people? Isn't it enough to be benefiting POC, for once?
It comes down to a basic ethical point of view: are you always your own number one priority. Some people only think of themselves. We call these people selfish. Some people can put others before themselves. We usually call these people "good people."
Isn't striving to be a good person enough of a benefit?
People tend to think in zero-sum terms, which really apply only in very limited situations, frequently transitional ones. I remember people getting upset when certain single-sex colleges went co-ed, because it was suddenly "twice as difficult" to get in if you were the original sex catered to. Mathematically, of course, that was more or less true. But in a few years the admissions rates stabilized and people got used to them. Over the whole population, having fewer men educated at Amherst or whatever truly isn't that significant.
ReplyDeleteHelen
"If you have additions to the above list, please let us know in a comment -- are there other ways that white racism costs or harms white people?"
ReplyDeleteRacism is economically harming the white class (really all) today.
Racism ultimately leads to discrimination. When a class is left out of fair economic opportunities, they will stay or become underpriveledged.
Education is always touted as the equalizer for equal opportunity. But historically the poor and/or minorities have subpar facilities, programs, and teachers.
After WW1 the GI Bill benifited only the "whites". This caused many to purchase homes and build equity. When the raoring twenties came - they benifited the most.
These and many more historical examples are why there are big pockets of brown and black skined people who are in poverty/or underpriviledged.
Attempts to level the generations of racism/discrimination resulted in some "racial quotas".
Ignorance today is where people believe there is no more racism, just "reverse racism".
Reality is "whites" (we all really) are paying economically for past racism through "racial quotas" and "wellfare" (subsidizing the poor who live in poverty)
Health care is another cost!
Great Quote on your blog
"The white community's first racial victim is its own child."
--Thandeka
"The problem with that in my opinion though is that it continually puts the emphasis on white folks feelings and life being the center. People just dont hold people of color's lives as equal and I dont think that saying "how does this affect whitey" every five seconds will do anything to hurt white supremacy."
ReplyDeleteAll the handwringing about if and whether Whites will oppose White supremacy (not just racism) only reinforces White dominance as the center of the universe.
To be frank, I think that White people are increasingly politically irrelevant.
They have demonsrated that they act according to their own predatory interests time and again.
It's ultimately up to racial minorities to bring an end to White power and dominance.
I expect nothing positive out of Whites as a class, including self-styled "anti-racist" Whites.
It's ultimately up to racial minorities to bring an end to White power and dominance.
ReplyDeleteI expect nothing positive out of Whites as a class, including self-styled "anti-racist" Whites.
So tell us, dear Lxy/self-styled detractor of self-styled "anti-racist" Whites, what sorts of positive things are you yourself doing to bring an end to White power and dominance? Besides, that is, leaving cynical broadsides at the tail-end of comment threads on "anti-racist" blogs?
And btw, racism does harm white people too. It's not "handwringing" to point out that it's in their own interests as well to fight white supremacy.
@ AE
ReplyDeleteI'm calling out phony White progressives and apologists who try to make White self-interest the center of "anti-racist" debate. It's called consciousness raising.
The fact that Whites are even trying to aggressively make their interests central in this discussion reveals the bogus nature of their self-styled anti-racism.
White people will try to colonize the anti-racism industry--just as surely as they colonize every aspect of society.
Your sneering hostility tells me that I must have hit too close to home for you.
And if you don't believe Whites benefit from White supremacy, you are living in the White Lie world.
Just check out America's criminal injustice system, which massively imprisons people of color disproportionate to their numbers.
The fact that Whites are even trying to aggressively make their interests central in this discussion reveals the bogus nature of their self-styled anti-racism.
ReplyDeleteWho, in particular, is doing that? If any of the commenters above, how so? If Macon D, by doing one post on this topic out of hundreds, how so, given that it's one post on this topic out of hundreds?
White people will try to colonize the anti-racism industry--just as surely as they colonize every aspect of society.
I can see how that could happen, but are you saying that therefore, whatever they have to say in an anti-racism mode should be ignored?
Your sneering hostility tells me that I must have hit too close to home for you.
Nah. Just trying to suss out where your own sneering hostility is coming from.
And if you don't believe Whites benefit from White supremacy, you are living in the White Lie world.
I do believe that, it's obvious to me. For one thing, I read this blog, where the posts continually make that blatantly obvious. I also move about in the world with my eyes open, where it's also obvious, to any white person with open eyes. And with a raised consciousness, a state I strive for in part by reading this and other anti-racism blogs, and in other ways. I've actively curtailed my participation in white supremacy, in countless ways, actually. You seem to doubt it's possible for a white person to do that.
Just check out America's criminal injustice system, which massively imprisons people of color disproportionate to their numbers.
You sure got that right. Again, that's now obvious to me, and I now work against it, out there in meat space. Do you?
I think one of the ways racism really effects white people is in interpersonal and often times romantic relationships with POC. I think too many whites let race get in the way of really getting to "understand" their friends of color. To the extent that the race of their friend's particular group is feared by whites, many will back off from meeting a friend's family or joining them in a non white environment. Also, often times, when a POC tries to enlighten said white friend about issues in their community or about how they REALLY feel about things, whites can often get "freaked out". They usually view "race issues" as a combative subject while to POC they are an intrinsic part of life.
ReplyDeleteIn the arena of romantic relationships, I feel that whites let sexual stereotypes and social taboos guide their way through interracial relationships, if they even venture their at all. I can only guess at what is is the white sexual psyche, but what manifests itself is often an unanswered curiosity about other races and their sexuality (as if it was a monolith). Other times, a white person may be attracted to a person of color who is in their social circle/daily life (pupil/co-worker/neighbor) but b/c the white community is so saddled with social rules, etiqoettes and taboos, the white person saddles these upon them-self and lets them hold him/her back from seeking out a POC romantically. (unless the pairing is white approved and socially acceptable based on a number of factors like WM/AF). Ideals of white purity and supremacy are subconscious echoes telling whites to stay to their own kind.What probably starts out as a lustful infatuation or simple affection or attraction left unexplored (ie a guy never goes up to a black girl he like and says hi because black women are loud and crazy, angry and abrasive) can lead anyone to miss out on great opportunities romantically and socially. Whites are not the only ones who are apprehensive about these things, but I think it is more pervasive than is talked about.
"What do you think? Is it worthwhile to encourage white people to also think of white racism in terms of the harm that it does to themselves and other white people?"
ReplyDeleteOnly judiciously.
I can see some tactical instances for it, e.g., deconstructing for white people the connection between racism and classism in health care reform debates.
Otherwise, this isn't Anti-Racism 101 stuff. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, I guess. I think it'd backfire more often than not, exactly as the post suggests by encouraging white people to make everything about themselves.
However, seeing how racism harms white people is important for white people who want/need/are preparing to take their education on matters of race to the next level.
Ugh, as I'm writing this, I'm also changing my mind. I was about to make a point about white parents of multiracial (POC and white) children** needing to think about these subtleties so that they can help their children negociate the internal conflicts of their (possibly multiple-) racial identities. Which made me think, don't we want to motivate ALL white parents to teach their children about the complexities of racism? Seeing how racism harms white people is at least better than letting white people pass on ideas of "reverse discrimination" or "colour-blindness" and such garbage.
Okay, I'm about to jump back on the other side of the fence. White people who haven't yet invested enough in how racism harms POC and begun to own their own role in white supremacy and to own their privilege - those white people aren't capable of seeing how racism harms white people in any kind of responsible manner. Thus it is dangerous to focus their attention on it.
** Case in point - I'm making this about myself, the white parent of biracial children.
@AE
ReplyDeleteAre you a White male?
You act like one. The stench of White entitlement is reeking.
One thing that Whites--especially the White male--cannot stand is to have their sense of racial entitlement challenged or better yet shot down.
In this particular case, AE doesn't like interrogation of so-called "White anti-racism", whose interests it serves, or its political (il)legitimacy. All this wrapped behind a lot of P.C. anti-racist phraseology.
"Who, in particular, is doing that? If any of the commenters above, how so? If Macon D, by doing one post on this topic out of hundreds, how so, given that it's one post on this topic out of hundreds?"
What is the very premise of this thread again? What White people have to gain. It's all about White self-interest that frames this so-called anti-racism debate. That says it all.
"I can see how that could happen, but are you saying that therefore, whatever they have to say in an anti-racism mode should be ignored?"
Wake the hell up. It's already happened. Anti-racism has already become just another non-profit industry for Whites to colonize. Who's promoting their books, websites, and speeches off the back of "anti-racism"?
Racial minorities in America should trust White "anti-racists" like they trust scam artists like Bernie Madoff.
But that's White Progressives (sic) for you.
"Nah. Just trying to suss out where your own sneering hostility is coming from."
Nah. You confused. You need to "suss out" why you're so hostile to having so-called "White anti-racism" and its politics questioned.
"I do believe that, it's obvious to me. For one thing, I read this blog, where the posts continually make that blatantly obvious. I also move about in the world with my eyes open, where it's also obvious, to any white person with open eyes. And with a raised consciousness, a state I strive for in part by reading this and other anti-racism blogs, and in other ways. I've actively curtailed my participation in white supremacy, in countless ways, actually. You seem to doubt it's possible for a white person to do that.
You sure got that right. Again, that's now obvious to me, and I now work against it, out there in meat space. Do you?"
You don't get it. White power and dominance ain't going to end with the good deeds of the Benevolent White Progressive. They will end because people of color brought them to an end--prolly over White America's carcass.
Any change in America has always come through rebellion and revolt--often armed rebellion and struggle.
Just remember the 1960s and 70s. It was really the urban rebellions from Watts to Newark--not singing "We Shall Overcome" with White liberals--that compelled White America to make political and economic concessions.
That will be even more true today.
The fire next time. It will rage.
The White Anti-Racist is an Oxymoron
http://www.nathanielturner.com/whiteantiracistsopenletter.htm
Lxy said...
ReplyDelete"Anti-racism has already become just another non-profit industry for Whites to colonize. Who's promoting their books, websites, and speeches off the back of "anti-racism"?"
So.... white people shouldn't get involved with anti-racism activism? It's not okay for a white person to educate other white people about racism? What should we do then? Nothing? Sounds like a case of damned if we do, damned if we don't.
"White power and dominance ain't going to end with the good deeds of the Benevolent White Progressive. They will end because people of color brought them to an end--prolly over White America's carcass."
I agree that white power and dominance will end only with people of color taking a stand. Though, you seem to imply that PoC will then be the dominant ones and white people will be underneath. (If that's not what you're implying, then my apologies) I don't think that's a good way to think, either. We should all have equal opportunity and privelege. There shouldn't be one race above another. I thought that's what anti-racism and racial equality is about.
I agree with a lot of what Lxy's saying, personally. It's part of the reason I prefer to say "I'm in the anti-racism movement" on the rare occasions when it comes up, rather than saying "I'm anti-racist". How can I be anti-racist? My psyche was partially formed by racism. I'll spend the rest of my life unlearning it, and I still won't fully get there. And I continue to benefit from the system each and every day. (I also like this article from Resist Racism on that topic: Why I Hate White Anti-Racists.) SO while I'm moving toward that goal, I'm nowhere near reaching it.
ReplyDeleteAs for his/her point that rebellion will be necessary, and the oppression of PoC will only end over the carcass of White America - yeah, I don't see a logical problem with either of those. When has a dominant class ever said, "You know, we should really get off these people's backs and give them rights equal to ours, because it's just the right thing to do"? It doesn't happen. People have to get upset, people have to agitate, people have to make it so uncomfortable or untenable for the ruling class, that the ruling class is forced to give concessions.
What I hope is that we can achieve those goals *without* the use of armed revolt or bloodshed, because if we do, *everybody's* going to get hurt. I'm hoping we can achieve the goals of forcing the system of white oppression to back off through the use of protests, economic force, raising the consciousness until we hit a critical mass that allows us to really start getting things accomplished, etc.
But notice that I said above "forcing the system of white oppression to back off" - not "forcing the system of white oppression to disappear". I don't think it's possible to make it voluntarily disappear. It has to be dismantled for that to happen. (Or as Lxy might put it, it has to be murdered. Until it's a carcass, it's going to keep walking along, trampling everything in its path.)
The system of white oppression is a lot like an overbearing parent that refuses to accept that their child has grown up, and is still constantly setting rules and enforcing limits on other adults. You can tell your parent to back off, and sometimes this will even be partially successful. But ultimately, the only thing that really ends their intrusion into your life is their passing.
I wouldn't say that that extends to it becoming a system of oppression over white people, though. I think Lxy's specifically referring to the system, not the people.
@Robin
ReplyDeleteThanks muchly for the clarification.
"I wouldn't say that that extends to it becoming a system of oppression over white people, though. I think Lxy's specifically referring to the system, not the people."
This, I can agree with.
Yes we need to encourage white people to think about how racism harms them. Most white people don't think about racism much and become blind to it. When they connect to it personally, they are more likely going to pay attention and be motivated to call it out when they see it (as well as change their own behaviors).
ReplyDeleteI know there is a lot of worry that this type of discourse will end up replacing the discourse of minorities. I understand that concern and this would be a major problem if it happens. But we really need three different types of conversations to be taking place. We need minorities talking among themselves about how to better their communities, and gain the power/recognition they deserve. We need whites talking amongst themselves about how racism affects them, why it's wrong and what they can do about it. And we need minorities and whites talking to each other about how to understand one another and treat each other with respect. Anything less than this is incomplete, and will leave pockets of racism to go unchecked.
When has a dominant class ever said, "You know, we should really get off these people's backs and give them rights equal to ours, because it's just the right thing to do"?
ReplyDeleteA little off-topic, but this is exactly why Prop 8 passed.
RVCBard, many much more progressive laws have also passed. And a lot of people in the dominant class have done things like fight for the Union in the Civil War, pass laws, risk political capital, vote for POC, etc. I'm not saying any of us deserve cookies, I'm just saying we're not all complete scumbags. If we were, this would be a much whiter country than it is.
ReplyDeleteAs for whether it's a good idea to appeal to the self-interest of whites... well, only if you do it right. Racism does get in the way of personal relationships, and it prevents us from working towards common goals as a united America. I think those are some very concrete, easily understandable, emotionally appealing things that just about everyone can agree on.
A lot of the other things you mention, however, are pure nonsense and/or insulting. All-white spaces are distorted? Very insulting. Racism keeps us from being our best selves? Please.
I also dislike this idea that whiteness takes away our ethnic identities. What's so great about ethnic identities anyway? They certainly haven't caused less strife than racial identities. Besides, some of us don't have a coherent ethnic identity to claim. Personally I have five different white ethnicities in my background, and those are just the ones I know about, and although they can be entertaining to think about, they're all completely irrelevant to my life. Whiteness is the closest thing to an ethnic identity that I have.
So basically no, I don't think there's a lot of value in focusing much on how racism hurts white people. It hurts us as human beings, and it hurts us as Americans, but it doesn't hurt us as white people.
bluey512 wrote,
ReplyDeleteIt hurts us as human beings, and it hurts us as Americans, but it doesn't hurt us as white people.
Did you even read the original post?
And why do you think all-white spaces aren't distorted? They're never an accident, because they're brought about by de facto -- and if you dig deep enough -- deliberate exclusion of non-white people. In other words, by racism. How is that not distorted?
Of course I read it. I don't misunderstand you, and I realize that that quote is, in terms of truth value, just about equivalent to what you said.
ReplyDeleteWhat I'm saying is that if you talk about racism explicitly in terms of how much it hurts white people, it sounds stupid, but if you talk about it in terms of how it hurts us as human beings (in relationships) or as Americans, it might sound more appealing.
Yes, all-white spaces are very often that way due to racism. But when you say that all-white environments are distorted, well, that's guaranteed to put a few white backs up. People will think you mean that white people are by nature distorted and incapable of creating wholesome spaces by themselves. I can sort of see how you might explain it in a non-insulting way, but that isn't it.
My main point is that on the whole, talking about racism in this way is likely to be counterproductive.
@RCVDBard: You're right, and that's a good point. Progressive laws *do* occasionally get passed. (We'll ignore the jerkassery involved in the subsequent revoking of Prop 8, because in general, your point still stands.) There are indeed occasions when the dominant class does the right thing.
ReplyDeleteOf course, to get to that point requires achieving that critical mass - there needs to be a certain number of people who are intelligent and enlightened enough to force reform of the current system. That's part of my goal in participating in blogs like this and trying to educate other white people; the more of us who become educated about these issues, the closer we'll get to achieving that critical mass.
(The other part of my goal is to reduce my negative impact on PoC by being more aware of my own actions/thoughts/speech. And while I wish I could say "eliminate" rather than "reduce", I have to be realistic and acknowledge that no matter how educated I may get, it'll still be intellectual understanding rather than having lived it, and so I will still say and do stupid, privileged things, despite my best efforts not to.)
@bluey: I hear you re: lack of ethnic identity. I too have at least four different white ethnicities in my background. What I've done is pretty much just choose the one that I have the most of (by blood, I'm 50% Italian) and tried to learn about it as much as possible (for example, I'm learning Italian, and have connected with family members in Italy on Facebook and such). I find that this makes me feel more connected to my own family history, kind of like I know where I come from (somewhat).
I don't think ethnic or racial identity is necessarily a bad thing - they can be divisive forces, but so can many other aspects of our identities. Ideally, it should be something that those of us (who want to) can use to enrich our lives, by giving us a sense of connectedness to our past, and belonging in the current time. I think part of the problem is when we're reduced to *just* our ethnic and/or racial identity - when that becomes the major factor for how people see us and treat us.
@Elsariel:
ReplyDeleteLike most White progressives (sic), your whining defensive response is funny as hell.
And it's an example of how White "anti-racists" share the same underlying mentality that pro-racist Whites more openly flaunt, whenever White authority or legitimacy is questioned.
Who says there's any real difference between the vaunted "White anti-racist" and White pro-racist--except for the political mask the former wears?
Go and read the article "The White Anti-Racist is an Oxymoron" that I linked to:
http://www.nathanielturner.com/whiteantiracistsopenletter.htm
It calls out "White anti-racists" and their self-serving political agendas and behavior. In particular, refer to the "economy of gratitude" section.
I agree that white power and dominance will end only with people of color taking a stand. Though, you seem to imply that PoC will then be the dominant ones and white people will be underneath. (If that's not what you're implying, then my apologies) I don't think that's a good way to think, either. We should all have equal opportunity and privelege. There shouldn't be one race above another. I thought that's what anti-racism and racial equality is about.
This is another classic behavior of White "anti-racists." Thinly disguised fear (or paranoia) about how White people will somehow "be underneath" racial minorities, if your system is ever destroyed.
In other words, the White oppressor psychologically projects his own oppressive instincts onto those beneath him--fearing that he (horror) just might get a taste of his own medicine someday.
But this is just another pathetic pathology of European American culture and identity in general.
Robin - I'm not sure you understand. If you have relatives in a foreign country, you have far more of an ethnic identity than I do. I have no foreign relatives that are close enough to friend on Facebook. I'm not sure I have any ancestors who came here after the Civil War, even. When people talk about white-bread Americans, they mean people like me.
ReplyDeleteYou know, it occurs to me that my very existence as a completely (as far as I'm aware) white person from a long line of born and bred Americans could be called a "distortion" in Macon's terminology. After all, how could someone like me exist if not due to racism?
This is the true depth of the problem. Whiteness is a real identity for some of us. It's bred into us - it's not something that was recently imposed on us, somehow painted over another truer identity. You can't just peel it off and reveal your true self. The history of colonization, slave-owning, white flight - that's my own personal history. And I'm pretty sure I'm just one of millions.
I hope that wasn't too much of a tangent. But you can perhaps see why I think telling white Americans that racism is bad because white spaces are "distorted" or because it whitewashes your real identity might be the wrong tactic for a lot of people.
@Lxy
ReplyDeleteThank you for your response. It's been most instructive.
@ Elsariel
ReplyDeleteAnd yours, even more so.
Yes, yes yes!
ReplyDelete"Is it worthwhile to encourage white people to also think of white racism in terms of the harm that it does to themselves and other white people?"
ReplyDeleteThis is such a superficial question, since racial constructions and racism aren't just about skin color or even the politics of one identity. Racism is also about sex, about power, about money -- if there's anything we covet or desire, racism's linked to it somehow, as is any oppression or marginalization. In my dialogues with my white friends, I've found that it can be easier to make them understand racism and racial constructions from that perspective. It's easier for a woman to understand racism when you can tie it to sexism, easier for a poor man when it's linked to classism. Thinking in systems rather than trajectories changes everything.
That said, I also often find in dealing with people (and not just white people) that there's an assumption that all oppressions are equal, and too often people who have never understood oppression try to claim all of it once you show them how they are affected by it. Certainly men are affected by sexism, but not to the extent that women are; certainly whites are affected by racism, but not to the extent that POCs are. The difference, I think, lies in helping people understand that understanding oppression -- or just that you're being marginalized through one of the Isms -- doesn't give you leeway for victimhood, but calls you into responsible behavior, that you respond to that oppression with life-giving action, you make connections and build relationships meant to counter those oppressions. Too often we get stuck in the victim-role. That's what we need to work on when we raise the racial consciousness of white people. Yes, oppression hits you, too: what are you gonna do about it?
Both Frederick Douglas's Autobiography and LBJ's "We Shall Overcome" speech to Congress in 1965 more than a century later argue against racism because racism hurts Racists. They hurt themselves inside when they act out against Blacks. When Racists perpetrate evil against Blacks, the bitterness expressed splashes back and corrodes their souls.
ReplyDeleteExcerpt from LBJ's speech 03/15/65
But even if we pass this bill, the battle will not be over. What happened in Selma is part of a far larger movement which reaches into every section and State of America. It is the effort of American Negroes to secure for themselves the full blessings of American life. Their cause must be our cause too. Because it's not just Negroes, but really it's all of us, who must overcome the crippling legacy of bigotry and injustice.
And we shall overcome.
As a man whose roots go deeply into Southern soil, I know how agonizing racial feelings are. I know how difficult it is to reshape the attitudes and the structure of our society. But a century has passed, more than a hundred years since the Negro was freed. And he is not fully free tonight.
It was more than a hundred years ago that Abraham Lincoln, a great President of another party, signed the Emancipation Proclamation; but emancipation is a proclamation, and not a fact. A century has passed, more than a hundred years, since equality was promised. And yet the Negro is not equal. A century has passed since the day of promise. And the promise is un-kept.
The time of justice has now come. I tell you that I believe sincerely that no force can hold it back. It is right in the eyes of man and God that it should come. And when it does, I think that day will brighten the lives of every American. For Negroes are not the only victims. How many white children have gone uneducated? How many white families have lived in stark poverty? How many white lives have been scarred by fear, because we've wasted our energy and our substance to maintain the barriers of hatred and terror?
And so I say to all of you here, and to all in the nation tonight, that those who appeal to you to hold on to the past do so at the cost of denying you your future.
This great, rich, restless country can offer opportunity and education and hope to all, all black and white, all North and South, sharecropper and city dweller. These are the enemies: poverty, ignorance, disease. They're our enemies, not our fellow man, not our neighbor. And these enemies too -- poverty, disease, and ignorance: we shall overcome.