Here's an example of the reverse -- Microsoft has apologized for changing the head of a black man to that of a white man.
It's unclear at this point whether they also apologized for NOT changing the black man's hand to that of a white man.
As the BBC reports,
Software giant Microsoft has apologised for editing a photo to change a black man's head to that of a white man.
The picture, showing employees sitting around a desk, appeared unaltered on the firm's US website.
But on the website of its Polish business unit the black man's head was replaced with a white face, although the colour of his hands was unchanged.
Microsoft said it had pulled the image and would be investigating who made the changes. It apologised for the gaffe.
The altered image, which also featured an Asian man and a white woman, was quickly circulated online.
Bloggers have had a field day with the story, with some suggesting Microsoft was attempting to please all markets by having a man with both a white face and a black hand.
"The white head and black hand actually symbolise interracial harmony. It is supposed to show that a person can be white and black, old and young at the same time," said one blogger on the Photoshop Disasters blog.
Others have suggested the ethnic mix of the Polish population may have played a part in the decision to change the photo.
Other bloggers having a field day: Photoshop Disasters, endgadget, SoftSailor, Rocketboom. (See joejoe.org for another disaster that once appeared on Microsoft's site.)
It's still hilarious, though. I thought this had to be a joke until I saw the BBC article.
ReplyDeleteIf a photograph had been taken specifically for the Polish market, it would never have had a black model. That's not racism, I assume we'd agree, that's a matter of Poland having virtually no black residents and quite possibly no black models at all.
ReplyDeleteSo I think the question here is whether it was right for Microsoft to take a photograph and alter it to fit the Polish context, or whether they should have paid to have a new photograph taken with models who could more plausibly be found in Poland. (The model who appears to be Asian might be more plausible in Poland.)
On the one hand, I'm sure we're all uncomfortable with the idea of altering a photograph to replace someone based on their race, regardless of the reason. And perhaps Microsoft has an obligation to show Poland an image representative of Microsoft's clients worldwide.
On the other hand, there doesn't seem to be any motivation here to create a photograph in which a black person doesn't appear. This was an attempt to save money by not taking a new photograph, which wouldn't have had a black person in it.
The ubiquitous Obama cardboard cutout sold in party stores and placed at campaign headquarters around the country last year was actually the body of an old white man (look at the hands) with Obama's face photoshopped on.
ReplyDeleteOh please. Stop pussy footing around the damn Poles Microsoft. The world is mostly brown. They're going to have to deal with it an accept it. By not showing diversity they are keeping in place the false sense of superiority and xenophobia. People of color work at Microsoft..or at least they want you to THINK they do. I like how they sacrificed the Black man in favor of two Whites and the more "racially acceptable" Asian.
ReplyDeleteI call shenanigans on this bullsh*t!
Are you sure Microsoft is "pussy footing around" with its Polish market?
ReplyDeleteAfter all, this isn't about showing them what the world looks like. It's about depicting a scene that's presumably in Poland, which isn't brown at all. (98% of Poland is ethnically Polish, so I would think Poland is 99%+ white, and very few of that <1% are of African descent.)
This has nothing to do with who works at Microsoft, or should, and I don't see how it's related to "diversity." If they show a scene that looks like American diversity, but couldn't occur in Poland, doesn't that just make the marketing campaign look foreign and ham-handed, and thus rejected as ineffective?
James,
ReplyDeleteIf they show employees or clients true to form, then what problem is it with showing Microsoft as it is. Not as they think someone would like it to be. 99% of Japan is homogeneous yet, they show plenty of Whites in advertising. Is White the acceptable "norm" in a world where it really isn't the norm at all in terms of overall population expression?
"After all, this isn't about showing them what the world looks like. It's about depicting a scene that's presumably in Poland, which isn't brown at all. (98% of Poland is ethnically Polish, so I would think Poland is 99%+ white, and very few of that <1% are of African descent.)"
If that is the case why do we bother showing diversity at all? Yes, other races often find themselves portrayed by advertising if they happen to dominate that particular geographical area..but to the exclusion of Whites? Hardly.
If Microsoft wants to portray themselves truthfully,accurately and responsibly then shouldn't their advertising reflect that. Or is advertising not to be held to the same high standard and truthful product capability? They tell the truth about what their products can do...what is the problem in telling the truth about who buys/runs them?
James, there aren't too many Asian people in Poland either, probably, except for tourists, there are fewer of them than blacks, so your defense seems to be missing something. Whether this was racist or not, it is stupid and looks stupid b/c the guys head is at the wrong angle, it doesn't look natural, and his hand is dark. Racist, not sure, racially motivated, probably but above all else, STUPID>
ReplyDeleteIf they show employees or clients true to form, then what problem is it with showing Microsoft as it is.
ReplyDeleteI think maybe that's the confusion here. Those are supposed to be Polish clients, not Microsoft employees.
99% of Japan is homogeneous yet, they show plenty of Whites in advertising.
In advertising, yes, but the whites are clearly foreigners. No company tries to show Japanese customers with white actors.
James, there aren't too many Asian people in Poland either, probably, except for tourists, there are fewer of them than blacks ....
"Probably" being the key word here. In fact, I think you've got it backwards: to the extent that there are racial minorities in Poland, they do look much more like the broadly Asian model than the black model.
Now, "stupid" I think we can agree on. :-)
To James's argument, the three people in the picture ought to all be POLISH, not just white.
ReplyDeleteIt's not that well done either. the guys head looks weird.
ReplyDeleteJames,
ReplyDelete"In advertising, yes, but the whites are clearly foreigners. No company tries to show Japanese customers with white actors."
I don't get this statement. Please expand. The Japanese innately know that the models are foreigners. Are the Poles unable to understand this as well..or are they expected to understand but not be quite so inviting and embracing. If they were trying to save money like they "claimed" then the ultimate money saver would be to leave the photo alone. It's like they are saying that Poles have a problem with seeing Blacks but not Asians. Any idea why they didn't photoshop the Asian out as well, James? I am curious to hear your explanation.
I'm still confused, James. Yes in terms of skin tone Asians appear "closer" to Poles, but it is pretty obvious the other man in the picture is not a white man and mostly likely not a Pole. So it still doesn't make sense for them to change the black guy and not the Asian guy.
ReplyDeleteTo James's argument, the three people in the picture ought to all be POLISH, not just white.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it clear that Microsoft was trying to make them look like a group of Polish businesspeople? That's precisely what's controversial, isn't it?
I don't get this statement. Please expand. The Japanese innately know that the models are foreigners.
I'm sorry that I wasn't clear.
The Japanese love seeing foreigners, especially white foreigners, in advertising and in cultural media generally. (Yes, I agree it's racist.)
So the white foreigners in their ads are supposed to be foreigners.
When Japanese ads show people who are supposed to be Japanese consumers, they use ethnically Japanese models or actors.
In other words, I don't think the parallel you brought up with Japan holds up. Japanese don't accept being depicted by people who obviously aren't from Japanese society; they simply often like seeing foreign people in their ads. The photo here wasn't supposed to be of Americans, but of Polish people.
If they were trying to save money like they "claimed" then the ultimate money saver would be to leave the photo alone.
Not if it wouldn't serve its purpose in Poland.
This is no different than having a Microsoft web site specific to Kenya, full of photos supposed to be of local customers but with American-style "diversity" (primarily white models, with a few black, Asian, Native American and/or Latino models included).
No Kenyan would accept that as depicting her society. It would look like a foreign company which wasn't bothering to create a real web site for her country.
Any idea why they didn't photoshop the Asian out as well, James? I am curious to hear your explanation.
Yes. As I thought I said before, I believe a broadly Asian-looking model is much more representative of Polish society than a model of African descent.
Poland has virtually no residents of African descent. It does have a small racial minority, which I believe consists mostly of people from various parts of Asia (the ones which tend to send immigrants to Eastern Europe, like southwestern and south Asia).
Please bear in mind that they didn't choose to include an Asian model in Poland, but simply opted not to Photoshop him out (and we all know how well that process went with the black model).
I'm still confused, James. Yes in terms of skin tone Asians appear "closer" to Poles ....
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry. That's not what I meant.
I meant that I believe the most common racial minority in Poland today is from Asia.
"This is no different than having a Microsoft web site specific to Kenya, full of photos supposed to be of local customers but with American-style "diversity" (primarily white models, with a few black, Asian, Native American and/or Latino models included).
ReplyDeleteNo Kenyan would accept that as depicting her society. It would look like a foreign company which wasn't bothering to create a real web site for her country."
In Kenya, the ad would have stayed the same. With the white woman not photoshopped out. It seems like these companies do a great deal to show the "diversity" of themselves to darker countries but are loathe to do the same thing when the country is European. I can't believe some people can't accept this for what it is. They know that "whiteness" is equated with power,prestige, good looks the world over. So therefore when Microsoft wanted to portray clients/employees they made sure they were White. So because there are SOME asians in Poland, that makes keeping the Asian in acceptable? They are not even what you can call a "minority". They are a minor MINORITY there. I know they have a VERY small Vietnamese community there and even less others of Asian descent. Perhaps they should have photoshopped in two POLISH people and one Vietnamese if they wanted to stay so "true" to how they like themselves represented.
I guess what you're saying is that seeing a Black man in the ad makes Poles not want to buy Microsoft. I go to Jamaica to visit my grandmother and guess what? I've seen ads from Microsoft, Pepsi, Dell featuring all ethnicities. Even if the rest of the people were White, yes there was at least one person of color in there, however not to the exclusion of other races. The companies don't feel the need to photoshop someone OUT, just insert a little more color. Do they figure that White people are more xenophobic? That they couldn't possibly want to buy something that didn't appeal to their sense of vanity. Of seeing someone like them? If that is the attitude, is Microsoft purveying it?
I guess I just see things differently. My empirical view as a Black woman doesn't allow me to see some things in such a benign manner.
We agree to disagree on this James. I'm not the only one, but the thing about this beautiful country? You can say what the hell ya want and if people don't like it, tough titty! :)
In Kenya, the ad would have stayed the same. With the white woman not photoshopped out.
ReplyDeleteHow can you say that? Kenya is full of web sites, business materials, and advertising tailored to the Kenyan market, depicting people who look like Kenyan society.
It seems like these companies do a great deal to show the "diversity" of themselves to darker countries but are loathe to do the same thing when the country is European.
This is a very strange conversation.
In Poland, they would not understand what it means to show the "diversity" of Polish society by depicting a group that would never been seen in Poland. You're thinking of what diversity means in the U.S., where an all-white group with an Asian in the corner would not represent us. Poland is more than 99% white.
Or are you still thinking that this photo was meant to show the diversity of Microsoft, instead of to portray the clients they're targeting?
They know that "whiteness" is equated with power,prestige, good looks the world over. So therefore when Microsoft wanted to portray clients/employees they made sure they were White.
And yet they didn't do this in countries that have racial diversity!
I know they have a VERY small Vietnamese community there and even less others of Asian descent.
Actually, the Vietnamese are much less well-represented in Polish society than are immigrants from south or southwestern Asia.
My empirical view as a Black woman doesn't allow me to see some things in such a benign manner.
Okay. Let me put it to you this way:
Do any ads produced in Poland, for use in Poland, ostensibly showing Polish consumers, depict people of African descent? Would it make any sense for them to do so?
If you say "yes," perhaps on grounds of "diversity," then I think our disagreement is clear. You believe that Polish ads should be more reflective of the world's racial diversity, even if that wouldn't realistically depict Polish consumers.
If you say "no," then why would Microsoft do so in Poland? What's the difference? Should a foreign company show foreign customers, merely because they're a foreign company? Or is the issue that the picture was photoshopping, instead of a new photo being taken?
James, are you saying that Microsoft's strategies for optimizing their income outweigh PoC's need to not be made invisible to White people? (Despite the fact that they missed a spot.)
ReplyDeleteThe way I see it, Microsoft had a responsibility to bite the bullet and let that Black guy keep his head, because Microsoft is the one in the position of (overwhelming) power, and their profit margins be damned!
No James,
ReplyDeleteI believe Microsoft should have kept the damned photo the same. If they want to photoshop, they can photoshop the Asian out too since it is appealing to the Polish majority and not the Asian minority. The whole thing reeks like macaroni salad in the Sahara.
I must say that I don't find it a fraction as offensive as this Sony ad.
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/07/psp_white.jpg
My mouth dropped open when I saw this sh*t.
I personally think that all companies should make an effort to portray more of EVERYONE together. It appeals to a sense of togetherness and colorblindness to the exception of one. Green. Kind of like a "Hey...everyone in the world buys our crap! You should too! We don't care what color you are...just buy our crap!"
I certainly would patronize a company that I saw trying to actively promote this agenda. Like the old "United Colors of Benetton ads. The ones in Switzerland, the Czech Republic, Serbia and Austria all do very well. Perhaps there isn't one in Poland because they would have to photoshop 60% of the models. :P
James, are you saying that Microsoft's strategies for optimizing their income outweigh PoC's need to not be made invisible to White people?
ReplyDeleteAbsolutely not.
What I'm wondering is why we would expect a company advertising in Poland, with a photo meant to be of Polish consumers, to show people who don't exist in Poland.
Do you expect Polish companies to include people of African descent in their ads showing domestic consumers? If so, why, and if not, why would a foreign company do so when depicting Polish consumers?
This debate is striking people in Poland as crazy. They would have simply been confused if the original photo had been used, or offended that Microsoft's photo of Polish businesspeople was obviously of American models. They get why Americans like us believe so strongly that U.S. advertising should reflect the nation's racial diversity. They just don't understand what that has to do with them. Their racial diversity doesn't look anything like ours.
I must say that I don't find it a fraction as offensive as this Sony ad.
Um, yeah, me neither! I wouldn't have thought anyone could possibly dream up an ad campaign as racist and offensive as that if they were trying.
I personally think that all companies should make an effort to portray more of EVERYONE together.
Well, I like that, too. Certainly I strongly prefer ads that show people of the world, and not people of the particular country. And if they're *going* to show people meant to be local consumers, they better make a habit of showing everyone, not just the local dominant group.
"What I'm wondering is why we would expect a company advertising in Poland, with a photo meant to be of Polish consumers, to show people who don't exist in Poland."
ReplyDeleteThat isn't true. There are Africans who go to Poland to attend their Universities. Not it isn't a lot, but they do go there and at least some must stay. There is also a soccer player who is Nigerian by birth who is a naturalized Polish citizen and he plays on their national team. he is named Emmanuel Olisadebe. And according to the BBC there are about 30 African soccer players http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1.hi/football/africa/1481099.stm
There is even an African who is a naturalized Polish citizen who is a candidate for the European Parliament http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1244028721.63/
I think they should have gone for an all local look (and that white person doesn't even make the "local look" for Poland) or kept it as it was.
ReplyDeleteI mean, MS isn't exactly broke, if they wanted a different ad, one would think they could take a different picture, and by doing a crap edit they just caused themselves problems. None of us would even know if they ran the same ad w/all Polish actors. Now they have a hoopla
There are Africans who go to Poland to attend their Universities. Not it isn't a lot, but they do go there and at least some must stay.
ReplyDeleteI'm not saying that there isn't a single person living in Poland of African descent. But the number is apparently minuscule. Perhaps one in ten thousand models in Polish ads should be of African descent (unless, I agree, companies go the better route, and start showing international groups of consumers).
A photo from a U.S. company showing three people, one of them black, will look to Polish consumers like a U.S. photo thoughtlessly stuck on a web site for Poland, not like a genuine attempt to communicate with Polish consumers.
Isn't this like complaining that an ad in Rwanda showing domestic consumers features three black people, when everyone knows that there *are* a few white people who living in Rwanda?
Kopekler, I agree completely with what you're saying. Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Microsoft isn't broke, but it's not reasonable to expect them to take a new photo, replacing the American cast with a Polish one.
ReplyDeleteThere's a good chance the original photo was a stock photo. If, on the other hand, it was a custom photo shoot done just for MS, then keep in mind that the original photo shoot probably cost tens of thousands of dollars from start to finish. High-end photo shoots can easily cost six figures.
Either way, commercial photography is VERY expensive and it's not a simple matter to just "take another photo." There's probably no money in the budget to redo the photo just for the BFE Polish website.
My guess is that these hapless marketing folks thought they'd try to do a quick and dirty head strip to gear the photo more for its intended audience, and *boom* it blew up in their face - now they're a case study in white racism, lol.
Poland's racial demographics is 100% white. From the CIA fact book:
ReplyDeleteEthnic groups:
Polish 96.7%, German 0.4%, Belarusian 0.1%, Ukrainian 0.1%, other and unspecified 2.7% (2002 census)
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/pl.html
Thus if they wanted to cut off the Black man's head then they should have cut off the Asian person's head as well.
Advertisements in Societies in which the majority are not white often have a plethora of white faces to sell products. Just Visit China, Taiwan, or Japan in which having a white face is a selling point and not a detriment.
In any case, it’s so pathetic.
Poland's racial demographics is 100% white. ... Thus if they wanted to cut off the Black man's head then they should have cut off the Asian person's head as well.
ReplyDeleteThat's not 100% white. I'm not sure what you think is in the remaining 2.7% that isn't specified, but I believe it's largely other European with some Asian (including southwestern and south Asian) -- and, yes, even a few people of African descent.
Advertisements in Societies in which the majority are not white often have a plethora of white faces to sell products.
That's true. As we've been saying, there's a big difference between ads which purport to show foreigners to make products glamorous, and those which sell products by showing domestic consumers. The former often involve strong notions of white racial superiority, while the latter would hopefully reflect the society's actual racial makeup. Certainly this is what we see in countries like Japan and China.
I can agree that MS have the right to alter their advertising to suit the market - but I totally agree that the decision to replace the black guy and not the Asian guy was 100% racist thinking.
ReplyDeleteI can picture the meeting that must have taken place...
Bill: This photo really won't play in an overwhelmingly white market, will it?
John: Maybe not, Bill. Over here we like to sell ourselves as a nice, diverse company, but the Polish don't really play that way. Should we do another shoot with all white models?
Bill: Are you crazy? I read on the Intarweb the other day that high-end photo shoots can easily cost six figures. Just Photoshop the black guy out.
John: Wait, just the black guy? That Asian dude will look out of place to a Polish audience, too.
Bill: (condescending) Maybe, but everybody knows Asians are tech-savvy. That's good for our image. The Asian guy can stay.
John: (uncomfortable) Ah, Bill, black people can be tech-savvy too...
Bill: John, I'm starting to doubt your commitment to Sparkle Motion!
John: Oh. No sir. I mean, yes sir! I'll get on it right away. In fact, why bother to hire a professional Photoshop geek? I can do that stuff myself, and save us even more money. Photoshop doesn't look that hard... You just have to use the lasso tool to circle the head and switch it out, right?
Bill: And the hand, John. Don't forget the hand.
John: OF COURSE I won't forget the hand, sir. How dumb do you think I am?
I totally agree that the decision to replace the black guy and not the Asian guy was 100% racist thinking.
ReplyDeleteWhy? You say that Poland is an overwhelmingly white market, but they do have Asian immigrant communities.
If they had photoshopped out both models, wouldn't someone just have pointed to the Asian Polish communities and said that they should have left the Asian model in for diversity? That doesn't really apply to the black model, though, since Poland doesn't even have substantial African communities.
I think we keep going around in circles because people keep making assumptions about Poland--either that it has more diversity than it does, or that its diversity must look like U.S. diversity. It's an overwhelmingly white country with a small but distinct Asian minority and very, very small small numbers of African descent (apparently, mostly university students and professional athletes (grin)).
That's not 100% white. I'm not sure what you think is in the remaining 2.7% that isn't specified, but I believe it's largely other European with some Asian (including southwestern and south Asian) -- and, yes, even a few people of African descent
ReplyDeleteHardly. If one can accept the scenario that Africans would go to school in Poland then it would equally apply for Asians and it would have been noted in the Census if their numbers had grown substantially in the last 50 years--especially after the fall of the Iron Curtain.But that is not the case becuase their numbers are siginficantly smaller than the unspecified minorities that make up the bulk of what passes for Polish diversity and that includes Jews, Russians, Lithuanians, Slovaks, Armenians, Czechs, Roma (gypsies), Tartars, Lemkos, Kashubs (Kashubians), and Karaites.
Last time I checked all these groups are still racially white. So the Asian man should have been nixed out with the African and a Jewish or Romani face should have been photoshopped in if they wanted to hit Polish and the other unspecified minorities.
@ D - Roma are not white. In fact Eastern, Southern, and Central Europeans call them "blacks" because they have darker skin and they are horribly discriminated against because of it.
ReplyDeleteWould have been awesome if a Roma was added in, though. Probably be the first ad used where the Roma were shown as anything but musicians and buffoons
@ Vick - I agree with your marketing dept. scenario. Wonder if it was done in their US HQ or European office?
dejamorgana said...
ReplyDeleteI can picture the meeting that must have taken place...
...
Bill: (condescending) Maybe, but everybody knows Asians are tech-savvy. That's good for our image. The Asian guy can stay.
John: (uncomfortable) Ah, Bill, black people can be tech-savvy too...
Asians are tech-savvy - ROFL I think I'd just died from laughter!!! and yes... black people ARE tech-savvy, at least considering all those IT students I saw at uni... AND all those MANY websites based in African countries
If one can accept the scenario that Africans would go to school in Poland then it would equally apply for Asians and it would have been noted in the Census if their numbers had grown substantially in the last 50 years
ReplyDeleteFirst, immigrants from southwest and south Asia are common in European countries. African immigrants arrive in much, much smaller numbers. So your assumption about Asians simply going to Poland for schooling just isn't correct.
Second, those population figures weren't noting any group whose numbers have "grown substantially in the last 50 years." They were simply noting the most common individual national origins, and only where recorded. At best, you can assume that any other nation probably contributed 0.1% or less, which sounds about right.
their numbers are siginficantly smaller than the unspecified minorities that make up the bulk of what passes for Polish diversity and that includes Jews, Russians, Lithuanians, Slovaks, Armenians, Czechs, Roma (gypsies), Tartars, Lemkos, Kashubs (Kashubians), and Karaites.
I'll simply note that several of these groups are, in fact, Asian, so you're proving the point.
Would have been awesome if a Roma was added in, though.
Another great observation, Kopekler!
I know I'm only speaking for myself, but seeing an Asian is far less jarring to me than seeing an African. I'm not sure if it's just skin colour or what, but Asians 'blend in' more to my eyes.
ReplyDeleteI'm still stuck on their tag line: "Empower Your People". Right ...
ReplyDeleteJayn: "jarring"?
Also, having lived in Western and Eastern Europe for 12 years, I'd fall out of my chair if a major company there included Romas in an ad. (barring the colorful musician reference, of course)
All this nitpicking over Asians and Africans in Poland is absolutely freaking ridiculous. The fact is, even though they exist, they're not the demographic and advertisers certainly don't care about them. Microsoft was wrong and racist in photoshopping the black man out of the ad.
ReplyDeleteMicrosoft was wrong and racist in photoshopping the black man out of the ad.
ReplyDeleteBut, Jillian, can you say why?
I agree that this conversation has become ridiculous, with this business of the demographics of Poland.
But why isn't the charge of racism here equally ridiculous? Doesn't it simply reflect a typically privileged, U.S.-centered view of the world, which assumes that consumers in all societies should be depicted as looking like us?
Why shouldn't a Polish blogger be offended at the idea that advertising in her country is racist if it doesn't include people of African descent, rather than looking like her society?
Doesn't the principle of diversity, which in the U.S. argues that blacks are 12% of the population and should be shown in most advertising, mean that in Poland, most consumers shown should be white, and the next most-common demographic should be Asian?
I'll simply note that several of these groups are, in fact, Asian, so you're proving the point.
ReplyDelete***************************
Whatever. You are absolutely right. Black people are dumb low IQ kumquats and Asian and White people are brilliant, genius demigods. Those groups may have had Asian ancestors but they are still considered conventionally White in European society even though groups like the Romany (and being dark has nothing to do with it since a lot of Turkish, Italians and Greek would not be considered racially White but they are) are seen as outsiders. Makes no differences since all racial groups discriminate against their own in one form or another so you proved nothing in your ponderous argument.
But since you are so absolutely right and black people suck in every conceivable way—save all those brilliant Asians and Whites—then there really is nothing more to add.
Whatever. You are absolutely right. Black people are dumb low IQ kumquats and Asian and White people are brilliant, genius demigods.
ReplyDeletePlease don't quote me when you say this. I'm not saying anything like this, and no one else here is, either.
Those groups may have had Asian ancestors but they are still considered conventionally White in European society ....
Several of those groups are, in fact, white, European ethnic groups.
Others, however, are ethnic groups based in Asia, and are racially Asian (if you believe in our standard division of races in the first place).
all racial groups discriminate against their own in one form or another so you proved nothing in your ponderous argument.
You're right about the discrimination, but the argument was simply about the racial composition of Polish society.
Microsoft has replaced the photoshopped image with the original on their polish site and formally apologized, because, you know, they're just NOT that kind of people:
ReplyDeleteA spokeswoman for the technology behemoth said that the changed advertising was a case of a “simple mistake” and was not at all racially motivated. . . .
She further said, “We would really like to apologize. We are a multiracial company and there isn’t a chance any of us are racist.”
Did you know that Microsoft does extra-special screening of potential employees, just to ensure that there's no chance whatsoever that any of them are ever, ever racist?
“We would really like to apologize. We are a multiracial company and there isn’t a chance any of us are racist.”
ReplyDeletePlease, please, please tell me that was the Onion, and that Microsoft wasn't dumb enough to say that!
More cowbell: Yes, jarring. (what? I'm from a town with the ethnic diversity of a milk carton. I can't help but notice) A black person sticks out in my mind far more than an Asian does.
ReplyDeletemacon d -
ReplyDelete"Did you know that Microsoft does extra-special screening of potential employees, just to ensure that there's no chance whatsoever that any of them are ever, ever racist?"
I bet that if there were a way for MS to do that extra-special screening of their employees, they would do it.
Whether as an individual or as a corporation, there aren't many things worse in this society than being branded a racist. Whether it's justified or not, once it happens it's a near-permanent mark and a very hard thing to recover from.
All across this great nation of ours, sensitivity-training seminars are being re-tooled as we speak.
The guy in the new photo is part black and part white. Is that what they call a mulatto?
ReplyDelete"Whether as an individual or as a corporation, there aren't many things worse in this society than being branded a racist. Whether it's justified or not, once it happens it's a near-permanent mark and a very hard thing to recover from."
ReplyDeleteThat is the most hysterically stupid, small-minded, over privileged, ridiculous thing I have heard on this site. You have got to be kidding me. Do you even read this site regularly? Yeah, I'm sure being called racist and a known racist has really hurt Pat Buchanan, Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh who spew racism everyday of the week but who laugh their way to the bank with their millions. What a joke.
I didn't say you can't make money by being a racist, did I?
ReplyDeleteBefore you insult people, you should really read what they write more carefully. I could insult you in turn, but I won't.
Rush Limbaugh lost a job on Monday Night Football for saying something racist (I happen to think he should have too). Glenn Beck is losing advertisers like crazy because corporate America doesn't want to be associated with his nutso "Obama is a racist" rantings. And as far as Pat Buchanan goes... what sort of influence does he have on anything anymore? lol.
There are racists of every ethnicity getting rich off of racism. There are racists like Beck and Limbaugh who get rich for being racists, but then go a little too far in the racist crap they say and then lose some of their money and/or influence when, for example, corporate America deems they've gone too far and pulls their advertising.
Either way, making or losing money was not my point. The point is that Beck and Limbaugh are in "racist purgatory." They've forfeited their credibility beyond their own relatively tiny audience. And it's highly unlikely they'll ever get it back. They're stuck in their racist cul-de-sac, and really, it's hard to feel too bad about it. But they are stuck there, make no mistake.
Same goes with any number of others. George Allen will always be "macaca George." Kramer will always be known for his rant about black people. Mel Gibson will always be "anti-semite Mel." Jesses Jackson will always be known for his "hymie town" comment. Some of these people are probably "more racist" than others - but all of them will pay for their fuck ups for the rest of their lives. They pay for it by always being associated with it. They're always suspect, and looked at as if they're crazy.
I'm not saying that people shouldn't be held accountable for saying racist crap. I'm saying let's be clear about where we are, in 2009, USA, Planet Earth. Being publically branded a racist is a serious, very bad thing. Flirt with racism at your own peril. Individuals will go to great lengths to grovel and try to explain their way out of it. And corporations like MS go to extraordinarily great lengths to avoid having their brand tarnished by the characterization.
Did you get it this time?
I somewhat agree with James, that it smacks of cultural imperialism to suggest that every country's advertising should reflect the racial make-up of the US. Poland, as it happens, has very few visible racial minorities, but are we really saying that a country that is, for instance, a mix of east and south Asian, or Arabs and Europans, should have white, east Asian, and black people in precisely the US-appropriate proportions in its ads? 'Diversity' should surely itself be diverse in the forms it takes.
ReplyDeleteBut the problem in this case is that it wasn't just a purely locally produced advert, it was an advert of a multi-national corporation that was amended in this ham-fisted way. If they'd, as a matter of course, produced their own ads entirely locally, with pictures of actual Poles, I don't think that would be racist. But removing the black face from this picture sends the message, intentionally or not, of 'we don't mind Americans in our ads, we just don't want the black ones'. If it wasn't racist it was seriously dumb.
Also, we don't seem to have the full story of how this happened, and who took the decision and why. Was it a local Polish employee thinking they were saving money by reusing a picture, simply being amazingly clueless about how this would look internationally, or was there in fact a real racist motivation (whether by a Pole or by someone else in Microsoft making racist assumptions about how Poles think)?
Microsoft, like Guinness should tailor their advertisements to specific International markets. One size does not fit all.
ReplyDeleteThe Guinness adverts they show in the UK are not the same as the ones they show in Africa for example.
Vick,
ReplyDeleteI read what you wrote and though you said you wouldn't insult me you did by your arrogant statements in both posts and by implying I'm stupid and didn't understand your oh so deep post.
I stand by what I said, your comment was assinine. For something to be disastorous it needs to be career ending, meaning you make no money, you cannot move forward. Not you stay rich and famous and powerful. Beck is still on the highest rated most racist network and still making money. He is losing ads b/c. Color of Change is lobbying and getting people to send in complaints b/c he called the President racist. He said plenty of other racist stuff but this was just too silly. People get similar problems for sex scandals and missapropriation of money. Also, you said individuals, I've personally seen regular individuals being called racist and they get embarrased, but don't lose their jobs, continue their lives and more often than not their accuser is labelled as crazy or off balance. What you said was silly and if you want to you can insult me (more) and give rationalizations till the you turn blue, it doesn't make what you said true. Microsoft will lose little to nothing over this incident.
James, you're wrong - there are over 4,500 black people in Poland. There have been black people migrating there for decades.
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how a group of 4,500 people becomes "a group that would never been seen in Poland" as you said at one point.
Even if their numbers are small, your argument that they are not part of Polish culture and should therefore be photoshopped out is absurd.
And racist.
Cinnamon Girl, if you're right that there are 4,500 people of African descent in Poland, then that's just 0.01% of the population.
ReplyDeleteThat's entirely consistent with what I, and others, been saying here. In particular, this means that the percentage of Africans among Polish business people is minuscule, and the first thing that a Polish employer would think, seeing a U.S. company advertising with black models, is that this is a clumsy advertisement from a U.S. company displaying diversity appropriate to the U.S. market, not the Polish market, where the right diversity mix would be largely white, with a smattering of Asians and perhaps someone of African descent in the rarest of cases.
Calling me racist is absurd. I didn't call for this group to be Photoshopped out, and I didn't say they aren't part of Polish culture. I said that no Polish company would ever think to include a black model in an advertisement meant to depict Polish business people, and I understand why the Polish reaction has been to wonder why anyone thinks that a foreign firm depicting Polish business people would do so.
As for a group that would "never be seen," you're misquoting me. I said that the original photo was of a group which would never be seen in Polish society: three business people, one white, one Asian, and one African. That is absurdly unrepresentative of Polish demographics, to the extent of being astronomically unlikely (far, far less than 0.01% chance), even if you were to assume that the 4,500 Africans are well-represented among the Polish professional classes, rather than being largely university students and recent immigrants concentrated in lower-end jobs.
As a Polish guy, I have greatly enjoyed reading this comments thread, in which, I assume, mostly US citizens have had a lively discussion about what Poland is like, what Polish people think, et caetera. I particularly enjoyed statements like "In Poland, they would not understand", etc, etc.
ReplyDeleteI will only offer one passing remark: the erasure of the ethnic minorities who do live, study and work here from our culture is not making their lives fun, regardless of Microsoft's profit margin. I am not partial to the suggestion that statistically nigh-insignificant numbers of people mean that those people themselves are insignificant.
But please, do carry on in this entertaining manner.