tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post8987074652185790536..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: avoid the topic of race, especially whitenessmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger72125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-27810146190562918332009-12-13T23:11:30.140-08:002009-12-13T23:11:30.140-08:00Macon, as a biological male in the process of tran...Macon, as a biological male in the process of transitioning into a female, I freaking love you for knowing and using the pronoun "hir" :)Cloudynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-35445202860123531812009-12-13T23:08:26.582-08:002009-12-13T23:08:26.582-08:00Simply to piss on our parade. Hating that there&#...Simply to piss on our parade. Hating that there's ONE spot on the internet that is not bowing to their worldview making them question it. Nothing to do. Not having any sex and mad about it so they're gonna take it out on an internet comm. Who knows?<br /><br />Has there already been a post for "think that since they're fucking/dating/married to/partnered with a PoC they're not racist?" (probably has)Witchsistahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01603586060096649666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-75269363765003739782009-12-13T22:42:33.422-08:002009-12-13T22:42:33.422-08:00You're probably right, Witchsistah.
What do y...You're probably right, Witchsistah.<br /><br />What do you think keeps hir, and people like that, reading and trying to comment here?macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-3697737834383550042009-12-13T22:27:36.855-08:002009-12-13T22:27:36.855-08:00Macon,
Peppers is not here to learn shit. Pepper...Macon,<br /><br />Peppers is not here to learn shit. Peppers is here to troll. S/He feels s/he has absolutely nothing to learn from PoC unless we're fawning all over White people. S/He doesn't give a shit about our POV unless it syncs up with his/her view of the world.Witchsistahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01603586060096649666noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-54715951556656585602009-12-13T21:48:58.253-08:002009-12-13T21:48:58.253-08:00You know, Peppers, I really wonder what it is that...You know, Peppers, I really wonder what it is that keeps you reading here.<br /><br />And as I wrote to you before, I publish many comments that disagree with the posts I write, and I never refuse to publish comments because I feel "threatened," whatever that's supposed to mean.<br /><br />At any rate, <a href="http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/07/describe-white-people-who-point-out.html" rel="nofollow">do keep reading</a>.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-51506882426886416092009-12-13T21:46:15.122-08:002009-12-13T21:46:15.122-08:00"Silly Whitey—a study in self loathing and ha..."Silly Whitey—a study in self loathing and hatred."<br /><br />Rofl, Boy did he ever hit the nail on the proverbial head. I've only recently stumbled across this blog but SH's accurate reading of macon is the same conclusion I've come to after only a day of reading through some of his posts, replete with the obligatory racist comments from its mostly black readers, and the fact that macon himself refuses to post many of my comments, for whatever arbitrary reason he's come up with on that day.<br /><br />So I would venture to guess that's probably one reason why macon doesn't have too many white readers, because he insists on blocking their valid, diverse opinions out, especially the ones he doesn't agree with or feels threatened by.Peppersnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-2651319000738782962008-06-19T15:01:00.000-07:002008-06-19T15:01:00.000-07:00Look at their own respective countries that can't ...<I>Look at their own respective countries that can't seem to be tamed. Have you ever wondered why?</I><BR/>How do you consider the history of countless wars in Europe and the many wars of the USA? What are your thoughts about two world wars? What do you think about dropping two atomic bombs? Have you never wondered why?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-25341039599197581052008-06-19T14:45:00.000-07:002008-06-19T14:45:00.000-07:00Hi Macon,I also discovered your blog via Racialici...Hi Macon,<BR/><BR/>I also discovered your blog via Racialicious. I am half-white, half-asian and have been morbidly fascinated with and appalled by racist lines of thinking my whole life. For me, the entire concept of "race" is strange. I am the product of an "inter-racial" marriage, and many, many other people in the world are as well. What race are we?<BR/><BR/>What I don't understand is why people identify so much with each other based on arbitrary physical features. I am white enough to be accepted as an honorary white in most liberal white circles. I have dark eyes and hair, so non-whites accept me as well. In this position, I get to see and hear both sides of the story from as an “insider”, so to speak.<BR/><BR/>From this perspective, I find myself frequently shocked by the stuff that slips out of my white friend's and family's mouths in my presence. Here are a few examples:<BR/><BR/>"She is really pretty. She is blond." (blond hair = pretty) "I like red heads b/c of their pale skin." (from a white boyfriend who never made similar comments about women with other skin colors) "Why don't you get those Mexicans to come do your yard work for you." (this was from my former mother-in-law who was referring to Cuban men who were trained as engineers in Cuba, but were working as dishwashers here in the U.S. at the restaurant my husband managed)<BR/><BR/>What amazes me is that I know these individuals consider themselves very “liberal” and not at all racially biased. Little slips like these are subtle and hard to confront people with because they are not overtly and violently racist. But, these subtle, unconscious, and ubiquitous messages in language and the media really can make a huge difference in how people perceive themselves and others. <BR/><BR/>Thank you so much for opening a dialogue on this issue. I think it is so important for us in the U.S. to finally tackle these uncomfortable, divisive issues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-89414473619675036272008-06-18T23:17:00.000-07:002008-06-18T23:17:00.000-07:00Millions of people are not wrong. When you conduct...Millions of people are not wrong. When you conduct your life as you are taught and you see racial acts committed against whites grow increasingly by the day, don't sit there and wonder why. Look up the facts, and see how touchy feely you become. Blacks and browns hate us, but don't feel they can defeat us yet, so they play the race and injustice cards. What's it going to take before you wake up and smell the jealousy and hate? They really want to be like us, but it's not their nature. Look at their own respective countries that can't seem to be tamed. Have you ever wondered why?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-11493939832713290082008-06-15T22:34:00.000-07:002008-06-15T22:34:00.000-07:00I don't know where to drop this link I found a lon...I don't know where to drop this link I found a long time ago, so I'll just drop this here on this blog on this post: <A HREF="http://www.borderlands.net.au/vol3no2_2004/aveling_critical.htm" REL="nofollow">Critical Whiteness Studies and the Challenges of Learning to be a ‘White Ally’</A>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-3634506855428685112008-06-03T18:25:00.000-07:002008-06-03T18:25:00.000-07:00In regards to Restructure! comment:"I don't know a...In regards to Restructure! comment:<BR/><BR/>"I don't know about you as an individual, but many "working-class white" folk believe that (e.g. "Mexican" in the United States, "Asian" in the UK) immigrants are taking away "their" jobs. This is a sense of entitlement, to assume that you have a right to the job and others do not have the right because of their ethnic origin. This is othering, because it creates a distinction between "white working class" and the other, instead of thinking of both whites and non-whites as all "working class" since they are all doing the same job."<BR/><BR/><BR/>You're spot on about that. I didn't even look at it from that perspective.Tabethahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02833565452943738242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-32132752734757576492008-06-02T14:08:00.000-07:002008-06-02T14:08:00.000-07:00Thanks for your comments, Senbei! Yes, I'm very fa...Thanks for your comments, Senbei! Yes, I'm very familiar with Mansbach's book, and I even wrote a <A HREF="http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/05/saturday-book-rec-angry-black-white-boy.html" REL="nofollow">review of it here</A> awhile back. Mansbach's protagonist, and his efforts, are indeed what I'm paying homage to with my nom de blog.<BR/><BR/>I'm glad you stopped by, and I'll check out your blog soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-33454543883054510802008-06-02T13:39:00.000-07:002008-06-02T13:39:00.000-07:00PEACE brother.I just stumbled upon your site and I...PEACE brother.<BR/>I just stumbled upon your site and I think its freshtadeath. Im not sure if yourve heard of Adam mansbach, but he has a DOPE book called "Angry Black Whiteboy," that speaks to a ton of what youre writing about here. Here's the CRAZY part; the main character (angry black whiteboy) is named Macon Detornay (Macon D)! <BR/><BR/>I am a Japanese/Scottish/German/Mohawk Amerikan and am thining, reading, writing about race and ethnicity all the time. <BR/><BR/>I appreciate that you are attempting to activiely work at being an ally to people of color by addressing the issue of "whiteness," and noticing that this concept is empty and oppressive, but not necesarrily the people who wear this mask. <BR/><BR/>It seems that the kid who says you have "self-hate," issues is "calling the kettle black" (or white in this case =P). From what I gather, you are talking about "whiteness," being oppressive but not necessaarily "white" people. His guilt seems to make it feel impossible for him to acknowledge the privilege Amerika has afforded him as a WASP male. LOL. At least ur still on his blogroll! =P<BR/><BR/>Keep thinking/writing about race in a truly progressive way. Its not something the majority of our Anglo brothers and sisters have been able to do very well. <BR/><BR/>Paz,<BR/>C<BR/><BR/>http://colinresponse.wordpress.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-28747136104460698992008-06-02T02:38:00.000-07:002008-06-02T02:38:00.000-07:00Oops, I just realized the last part of my comment ...Oops, I just realized the last part of my comment sounded a lot like I was alleging that you're arguing that white culture, whiteness, etc., is a void. I should have said, that is how I (and others) were raised to feel about it - not in direct, explicit terms, but by the total lack of ever talking about it.<BR/><BR/>I appreciate so much that what you're doing here is trying to put words on things that I spent most of my 27 years having no real words for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-26484613636482173372008-06-02T02:31:00.000-07:002008-06-02T02:31:00.000-07:00Macon, I'm a white woman and have been reading you...Macon, I'm a white woman and have been reading your blog (and checking daily for updates) for a while now. I am a big fan. Your writing is fantastic and you communicate your points very clearly, at least from where I stand, and it makes it valuable for me to read your blog not to just to come away from it to do my own thinking, but also as a way to learn how to better articulate how I feel. I agree with nearly everything you've said on your blog so far, but it's frustrating to be a white person from the north who grew up in the 80s and 90s, who like many others from my age group and demographic, were raised with a distinct lack of words with which to talk about ourselves as white. I remember feeling like "white" was a dirty word until I got to college. I wasn't sure if it was okay to use it with myself.<BR/><BR/>What on earth kind of world are we living in when I am afraid to and unsure of how to talk about myself as a racialized American, which is certainly how I am seen by society and within the system, which is weighted with white supremacy?<BR/><BR/>Your post gave me a lot to think about, because most of my white family and friends will not engage in or even acknowledge conversations that address our whiteness and what it means to be white in America. It's frustrating to me to be going through what has been for me a very big and personal process of learning to see and come to terms with who I am as an American, as a person. I have often asked the same question of myself, and I don't think I have a very clear answer yet.<BR/><BR/>However, one thing I think is true is that discussions of whiteness often get taken for discussions of actual white people. People are quick to take offense without realizing that what we are talking about is not individual people, but rather the way a system functions. And when that system gives you privilege and power that you fear you may really not deserve on your own merit, but dread losing, and when you feel like somehow that power is part of your identity in a deep way but in a way that you can never acknowledge openly (perhaps even to yourself), it is hard for people to be open to a discussion of a system which for them perhaps collapses right into who they are as individuals. Maybe on a level it is an immutable part of who some white people are, and that questioning that system threatens that very identity, and here comes the defensiveness and shouting and "stop speaking in generalizations."<BR/><BR/>I agree with you about the emptiness of "whiteness" and the loneliness, alienation, and frustration that many whites feel at this. I used to feel this way when I was growing up too. But I can read your blog now, and writing by others on race, and realize that to say that whiteness is empty is not to say that I as a white person am empty. But I wonder if that is where the resistance and aversion to talking about whiteness begins.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-82799631234835300262008-06-02T00:46:00.000-07:002008-06-02T00:46:00.000-07:00This is my first comment. I catch up on your blog ...This is my first comment. I catch up on your blog about twice a week.<BR/><BR/>I'm a white male. I was referred to this site by a good friend who is a white female. She was always the person I went to when I needed to understand social/political discoveries I was having as I've become more aware, more alive.<BR/><BR/>It took a bit for me to understand the concept of white as an institution. Anti-whiteness isn't anti-white. It was a hard concept for me to understand. However, once I was able to understand being white vs my whiteness, doors opened, one of them being your site, and the ability to understand your intentions, your voice, and the extent of whiteness as a whole.<BR/><BR/>Now I see whiteness everywhere.<BR/><BR/>I've felt for a long time that white people don't have a culture. Moving from Colorado to Harlem exemplified that (not to mention made me overly aware of the grossly misrepresented white concept of what Harlem is, who lives there, what happens...I still get the "is it scary living in Harlem?" question). However reading comments, many white people are upset at the hint that there's not a white culture. We don't have a food. There's Indian food, Chinese food, Mexican food, Italian food, Ethiopian food, but no American food. American food comes from taking bits and pieces of other cultures. Anything someone could try to argue is an American food, it's most certainly a perversion of another culture. Culture isn't food, but food is a subset of a culture. It's not that white people don't have a culture because they don't have a food, but they don't have a food, because there isn't a white culture.<BR/><BR/>To make up for it, it seems like white people take on classifications as a culture. They're usually socioeconomic classifications (like you even stated in your response to SH's comment), but you have to ask yourself if that's <I>really</I> a culture?<BR/><BR/>Perhaps this is how I grew up. I'm part German, part Polish, even a wee tad little bit Blackfeet Indian, however I don't identify as any of them, I don't identify with their culture, but I do have to admit I like sauerkraut. I grew up just being white, and having whiteness instilled in me. Whiteness was my culture (hey! perhaps that's the white culture: whiteness). It wasn't until my late teens when I came out of the closet that I truly began to understand what it meant to be a part of a culture. Cultures have causes, politics, histories, celebrations, activities, unifications, and foods (tho, there's not really a gay food, unless Pinkberry counts?). <BR/><BR/>There seems to be a number of white people who read your blog. Many of them came from middle to lower socioeconomic classes and have made something of themselves. Previously poor white people read your blog, they understand it, they don't seem to judge. Perhaps you should see how you can expand upon getting the previously well-off, currently well-off white people to read your blog. They probably wield their whiteness stronger than anyone, as even those previously poor or currently poor white people feel the wrath of it!<BR/><BR/>I read a comment that reminded me of a popular argument. Someone asked why you don't write any entries about what white people do right. To that, I say you spend so many years in history classes, reading history books, honoring presidents past. America has positioned itself to where you're always being told what white people do right. It's perhaps whiteness itself that needs some sort of vindication amidst this exposition. It's the same argument for Black History Month: we spend 28 days honoring the contributions of African Americans to American life, and spend 337 days honoring what white people did. <BR/><BR/>Don't change, keep exposing whitness deeper than ever before.<BR/><BR/>I hope to continue to learn from you for quite a long time!Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17311959592720489846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-58157771902861033492008-06-01T21:44:00.001-07:002008-06-01T21:44:00.001-07:00I've always felt that discussions around white pri...I've always felt that discussions around white privilege take too much of an academic nature. It's hard to make it real for people. <BR/><BR/>Whenever I write about it, I usually write from an academic topic connected to a real experience I've personally had.<BR/><BR/>It's a way to escape generalities and how can someone fault you speaking from personal experience. I think it's a much more powerful affect.<BR/><BR/>To become committed to understanding white privilege and how it plays into your life, white people need to be naively optimistic and unaware of the consequences. Almost kind of tricked. <BR/><BR/>I'm not advocating lying to people, just the person can't know exactly what they are getting into otherwise, they'll run right out the door.<BR/><BR/>Who would adopt a courtesy stigma knowingly?<BR/><BR/>This doesn't address how do you get more white people to read your blog. Your current readers need to recruit other readers. <BR/><BR/>I wonder how many white readers actually forward this blog onto people they actually know? We all know it doesn't take much to pass a Web site along.<BR/><BR/>(Yay, my first comment!)Tom Gladys Vancehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03251289585080351134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-86364143254616694412008-06-01T21:44:00.000-07:002008-06-01T21:44:00.000-07:00Macon D,Thanks so much for this site. As a white ...Macon D,<BR/><BR/>Thanks so much for this site. As a white woman and an anti-racist, I try to explore and think about sites dealing with whiteness. <BR/><BR/>When I first looked over yours, I was a little concerned because your approach seems kind of negative. But I posted about my concerns in the discussion over at <A HREF="http://whiteantiracist.wordpress.com" REL="nofollow">White Anti-Racist (one of my favorite sites)</A> and the whiteantiracist team over there explained why your approach is, to use their word, so brilliant.<BR/><BR/>Now, I feel totally okay with what you are doing. Keep up the great work!<BR/><BR/>Jannie SueAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-9843097785225972932008-06-01T16:24:00.000-07:002008-06-01T16:24:00.000-07:00Macon, I have the same issues that you do with the...Macon, I have the same issues that you do with the site Stuff White People Like. That said, however, I believe SWPL does a good job of describing just what "white culture" is. Of course, the site is only focusing on a portion of white culture--educated, liberal, middle-class, etc.Nadrahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14951831611030681223noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-31006434470991765142008-06-01T15:04:00.000-07:002008-06-01T15:04:00.000-07:00Tabetha:In regards to JW's comment "Eurocentrism d...Tabetha:<BR/><BR/><I>In regards to JW's comment "Eurocentrism does have certain things in common, also religion (Christianity), a common sense of a feeling of entitlement to dominate, individualism, othering etc."<BR/><BR/>I've never understood this, perhaps because I come from a long line of poor, white, blue collar workin' folk. Also, it's been ingrained in me that I come from people who fought (and still fight) to KEEP their homes and culture not to take someone else's.</I><BR/><BR/>I don't know about you as an individual, but many "working-class white" folk believe that (e.g. "Mexican" in the United States, "Asian" in the UK) immigrants are taking away "their" jobs. This is a sense of entitlement, to assume that you have a right to the job and others do not have the right because of their ethnic origin. This is othering, because it creates a distinction between "white working class" and the other, instead of thinking of both whites and non-whites as all "working class" since they are all doing the same job.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-43664071705363370182008-06-01T14:37:00.000-07:002008-06-01T14:37:00.000-07:00In regards to JW's comment "Eurocentrism does have...In regards to JW's comment "Eurocentrism does have certain things in common, also religion (Christianity), a common sense of a feeling of entitlement to dominate, individualism, othering etc."<BR/><BR/>I've never understood this, perhaps because I come from a long line of poor, white, blue collar workin' folk. Also, it's been ingrained in me that I come from people who fought (and still fight) to KEEP their homes and culture not to take someone else's.<BR/><BR/>Anyone else have these feelings? I admit I have prejudice I work hard to overcome against the privileged white class. Is judging someone based on their class in the same boat as judging by their race?Tabethahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02833565452943738242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79738256743113688402008-06-01T14:30:00.000-07:002008-06-01T14:30:00.000-07:00You can lead a horse to water but you can't make h...You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink, whites who want to remain in denial will do so no matter how logical your arguments are. Whites receptive to your arguments will read.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-84522046078062054712008-06-01T14:28:00.000-07:002008-06-01T14:28:00.000-07:00Hey Macon,I was just being cheeky about the spelli...Hey Macon,<BR/><BR/>I was just being cheeky about the spelling error and trying to lighten the mood. ;)<BR/><BR/>I understand why you quoted that particular comment and don't take your comments personally. Unfortunately I have gotten more than a few ignorant and nasty emails regarding it which made me consider retreating entirely.<BR/><BR/>It's impossible to know the "correct" amount of pride a white person is allowed to have in being white or how to "properly" address questions of race. I am a white woman who grew up in the Midwest. People automatically assume I am ignorant, racist and can milk a cow. Whenever I hear "Gosh you are so much more well spoken than I would have expected",I take a second, multiply my irritation by 10 and imagine what it must be like when the same thing is said to a person of color. I commend every person who has had that said to them in regards to their race and has not flipped out at the person saying. <BR/>I will wholeheartedly admit that talking about "whiteness" makes me cringe. I am incredibly proud of my European and Native American background. I come from a long line of people who have been stomped on and risen above the stereotypes dumped on them. It can't compare to the African American struggle and I would never assume I "understand" it. But, as I get older I try, in earnest, to do the best I can without being one of those "I have black friends so I CAN'T be racist" people that peeve me off. <BR/>Maybe blogs like this can help ALL of us to discuss these issues a little more openly and supportively. Helping each other understand is the only way to come together and break down some of the walls.Tabethahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02833565452943738242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-38562950940912577222008-06-01T14:01:00.000-07:002008-06-01T14:01:00.000-07:00Where does Macon D talk about white people having ...Where does Macon D talk about white people having no culture? <BR/><BR/>I think it's Eurocentric to think that white people have no culture. White culture in white society is considered 'neutral', 'normal', and 'objective' while non-whites are the 'ethnics'.<BR/><BR/>White people don't think they have culture, because having no <A HREF="http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Triskaidekaphobia.html" REL="nofollow">13th</A> floor is so prevalent that it's almost invisible, while having no 4th floor in some Asian countries is considered superstitious and cultural.<BR/><BR/>There is an implicit white culture, since white people think there is such a thing as "Asian culture", "Black culture". White culture is "not Asian culture", "not black culture", etc. White culture is defined implicitly by contrasting with and <A HREF="http://www.cwrl.utexas.edu/~ulrich/rww03/othering.htm" REL="nofollow">othering</A> non-white cultures.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-52047947346463677572008-06-01T13:09:00.000-07:002008-06-01T13:09:00.000-07:00Macon, you might be interested in reading this:htt...Macon, you might be interested in reading this:<BR/>http://www.prisonactivist.org/cws/cws-culture.html<BR/><BR/>this is not only true for the USA but globallyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com