tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post7877377308405157213..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: abuse their childrenmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-58469858899259479642009-11-04T13:55:56.730-08:002009-11-04T13:55:56.730-08:00Maybe your dad IS a conservative and an all-around...Maybe your dad IS a conservative and an all-around good guy. They're not mutually exclusive.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08643153787471492243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-43237420913647993452008-09-12T05:07:00.000-07:002008-09-12T05:07:00.000-07:00You try to reject all what doesn't fit your concep...You try to reject all what doesn't fit your concepts and you even don't think about it.<BR/>You are more mainstream than you want to believeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-51654331072267533272008-09-11T21:35:00.000-07:002008-09-11T21:35:00.000-07:00jw: "Why is it luck to learn these rules and to be...jw: "Why is it luck to learn these rules and to be accepted by people, who accept only 'empty' people (those following mainstream to be accepted) ?"<BR/><BR/>I didn't state what I meant clearly enough, it seems. I mean that I was lucky enough to have, or else somehow gain, the ability to learn to see the unwritten, unstated (and thus not normally seen) rules that govern "normal" existence. By explicitly learning what many of those implicit rules were, instead of just blindly or automatically following them, I gained the choice of rejecting those that I found objectionable, because they were harmful. So, I think I'm saying a lot of what you've been saying here--that following the mainstream in order to be accepted was what I learned how NOT to do, because again, I learned to see the unwritten rules that many people around me couldn't see, and thus rather blindly followed.<BR/><BR/><I>You wrote in your text:<BR/><BR/>>I’ve often thought that what Rich did that night in that place further demonstrated his fundamental separation from the rest of his classmates.<BR/><BR/>I think he wasn't separated or why did he believe that he can come up with his shit when he is among white people he knows? He felt safe to do so. Why?</I><BR/><BR/>You left out the sentence after the one of mine you quoted, the sentence that says, "But now I'm not so sure." I'm "not so sure" that he was separated from us because although what he did was far out of the range of acceptable action for any of the rest of us, he nevertheless believed, as you say, that he could come up with his shit among us and feel safe to do so. Why, you ask? Because he knew we wouldn't stop him, and that most of us would instead applaud him, and wish we could be so daring. I wasn't sunk far enough into a white supremacist perspective o laugh at and applaud his actions (which is why I felt instead sick about what he'd done), but many of my fellow classmates and fellow suburban residents were. So, the extremity of his racist actions did separate from us, but on the other hand, he got away with it because in a deeper sense, he wasn't separate from us--he was on the same side we were on, in racial, and racist, terms.<BR/><BR/>Regarding the last part of what you wrote, those are nice words about freedom of choice. However, I think I differ in that one point of this post is my belief that some kids are more encouraged to exercise and do something positive with that choice--to realize they even HAVE that choice--than others are.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-47201399108937351222008-09-11T15:17:00.000-07:002008-09-11T15:17:00.000-07:00> what I meant was that learning to be and act ...> what I meant was that learning to be and act like one is supposed be and act, as a "proper" and "functioning" member of society, means following certain (largely unspoken) rules for acceptable and pleasing thought and behavior. <BR/><BR/><BR/>Somebody white within a white society/Eurocentric society is supposed to act Eurocentric and 'white' - meeting Eurocentric norms and ideals.<BR/>Therefore the question, when you write this:<BR/><BR/>>I've been lucky enough to learn what many of these rules are, in terms not only of race, but also of nationality, gender, social class, sexuality, and others,<BR/><BR/><BR/>Why is it luck to learn these rules and to be accepted by people, who accept only 'empty' people (those following mainstream to be accepted) ?<BR/><BR/><BR/>You wrote in your text:<BR/><BR/>>I’ve often thought that what Rich did that night in that place further demonstrated his fundamental separation from the rest of his classmates. <BR/><BR/>I think he wasn't separated or why did he believe that he can come up with his shit when he is among white people he knows? He felt safe to do so. Why?<BR/><BR/><BR/>>Regarding your brief description of your own past, I must say, you are incredible!<BR/><BR/>I am not incredible, I only insist that people accept me for who I am and not for what they want me to be. It isn't a preternatural ability, but can easily be explained by psychology. Within similar circumstances individual people will act in different ways.<BR/>My favorite quote by V. Frankl: 'Everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms - to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way.'<BR/>And this is already true for children. Children aren't born soul-less where adults can just fill in what they want to make out of their children.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-36042189212960874792008-09-11T10:57:00.000-07:002008-09-11T10:57:00.000-07:00jw, what I meant was that learning to be and act l...jw, what I meant was that learning to be and act like one is supposed be and act, as a "proper" and "functioning" member of society, means following certain (largely unspoken) rules for acceptable and pleasing thought and behavior. This is a process that I think all children go through, unless they somehow grow up in isolation from others, and thus do not develop their own innate desire to be accepted and loved by those others (and I do think--okay, I hope--that such desire is innate). I've been lucky enough to learn what many of these rules are, in terms not only of race, but also of nationality, gender, social class, sexuality, and others, and I now do what I can to reject those that I find objectionable because they're harmful to others, and to me. Like other functioning members of society, I've been "indoctrinated," and so for me, "waking up" means learning about how indoctrination works, and finding ways to resist it. I continually do this kind of learning (and unlearning) in more ways than I can describe--reading, watching, listening, conversing, acting differently than I used to, going places I didn't used to want to visit, interacting with people I used to somehow feel I should avoid, and so on.<BR/><BR/>So that's the sense in which I interpreted your initial metaphor about "waking up." What I meant by saying I'm not sure that I have awakened yet is that I'm not sure I've awakened <I>fully</I>. In fact, I'm sure that I haven't. I'm still learning about objectionable unwritten rules that I've been led to accept and enact. If you meant "wake up" in some other sense, please do explain what you're thinking.<BR/><BR/>Regarding your brief description of your own past, I must say, you are incredible! To think that a person could somehow resist, right from the start, all of that which I've just said I'm still trying to wake up to. Your description of your past reminds me of a friend of mine, who used to swear that he clearly remembers his own birth. Both descriptions of such preternatural childhood abilities seem incredible to me, but then, stranger things have probably happened, somewhere.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-88017145687427753052008-09-11T10:27:00.000-07:002008-09-11T10:27:00.000-07:00>I'm not sure that I have "woken up&qu...>I'm not sure that I have "woken up" yet, jw. I think I'm still trying to do that.<BR/><BR/>please explain what you mean with thatAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-59061148328401606312008-09-10T10:17:00.000-07:002008-09-10T10:17:00.000-07:00I was too curious to ever believe society's lies a...I was too curious to ever believe society's lies and I also joined the alleged 'wrong people', those, who know the reality of life and and of a nation because they aren't accepted by main-stream.<BR/>I never had a reason to join the main-stream side, I wasn't willing to assimilate and to give up my own soulAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-82426423716785381262008-09-10T09:25:00.000-07:002008-09-10T09:25:00.000-07:00I'm not sure that I have "woken up" yet, jw. I thi...I'm not sure that I have "woken up" yet, jw. I think I'm still trying to do that. To the extent that I may have succeeded, it's been a gradual process through many incidents, circumstances, and influences (some of which I described in this post), rather than something I can attribute to some specific time in my life.<BR/><BR/>How about yourself? Are you "awake," and if so, is there a time in your life when it happened?macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-84954817896592614542008-09-10T09:19:00.000-07:002008-09-10T09:19:00.000-07:00Macon, at what time in your life did you 'wake up'...Macon, at what time in your life did you 'wake up'?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-47653379110794217362008-09-10T08:49:00.000-07:002008-09-10T08:49:00.000-07:00That's a great story to hold onto, Jenni B, thanks...That's a great story to hold onto, Jenni B, thanks for retelling it. Yes, it's a (white) shame the way racism can be exciting for kids. It's great that your mother stepped in like that to counteract it.<BR/><BR/>Yes lynn and white trash academic, I did wonder if any of the other white "seniors" at that table also felt that same knot in their stomach. I can only hope that some of them did--I remember asking a couple of them about the incident afterward, and that they were only willing to try to laugh it off. The strained quality of their laughter, and their averted eyes, did suggest some discomfort over the incident and, hopefully, an incomplete identification with the suburban KKK kid.<BR/><BR/>I'm glad you enjoyed this post, anonymiss. I'll keep thinking about my life and my past in search of other relevant incidents and stories. I'm still trying to undo my "white" training, and that's obviously a good method for doing so, and for encouraging others to do so.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for stopping by, LLDR and brohammas, and I'm glad you found value in this post.<BR/><BR/>anonymous, have you considered having your students write stories about their childhood encounters with race, including their training into their own racial identities?macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-22694545231988709072008-09-09T10:14:00.000-07:002008-09-09T10:14:00.000-07:00I teach about race in a New York City college. I'm...I teach about race in a New York City college. I'm so glad to read your blog. I wish I could get my students to talk as openly about race as you do here. That's the start to making change - acknowledging that something's not right about our society. Thank you, thank you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-7248599000732248112008-09-09T03:35:00.000-07:002008-09-09T03:35:00.000-07:00You write well, thanks.It never struck me what the...You write well, thanks.<BR/><BR/>It never struck me what the word really meant till about eighth grade. I have called it "doorbell ditching" ever since.brohammashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14916793129032434035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-37676027646751442392008-09-08T08:11:00.000-07:002008-09-08T08:11:00.000-07:00Thanks for sharing this story. I was beyond shocke...Thanks for sharing this story. I was beyond shocked. Great story line.La Legione di Resistenzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05818326093597590053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-50991032882111807432008-09-07T17:06:00.000-07:002008-09-07T17:06:00.000-07:00I hope that some of those kids did in fact feel th...I hope that some of those kids did in fact feel the same....thanks for sharing.TLCastlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11620049442846287591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-38698068817608986332008-09-06T22:29:00.000-07:002008-09-06T22:29:00.000-07:00I enjoyed this. I like that you're sharing person...I enjoyed this. I like that you're sharing personal anecdotes.Anonymisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13030472200941563001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-85595384720258531362008-09-06T20:31:00.000-07:002008-09-06T20:31:00.000-07:00Wow, this brought back memories of my childhood, a...Wow, this brought back memories of my childhood, and what it was like to be black in a white working class community. The racial taunts along with the few black and mainly white divide was a daily part of our existence. It can really mess with a black child's self esteem.<BR/><BR/>I've heard the phrase "It's mighty white of you, " a great many times making it seem as if good deeds are something that can only be equated with whiteness.<BR/><BR/>Have you ever wondered if any of those kids who laughed out loud at the banquet didn't feel that same knot in their stomach, but were too afraid to stray from the team and show their disapproval?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-77153695163656976542008-09-06T17:13:00.000-07:002008-09-06T17:13:00.000-07:00Hopped over here from lucky white girl and I have ...Hopped over here from lucky white girl and I have to say that I really enjoyed this post as well. <BR/><BR/>I can distinctly remember the night I stopped being innocently "colorblind" (as I believe most children are)...<BR/><BR/>When I was in second grade, I attended a sleepover with a handful of (white) friends from my Girl Scout Troop. While we were at the video store deciding what movie to pick out, one of the girls' older brothers came up and inquired about our plans for the night. Upon discovering we only had very tame adventures planned, he suggested that we go "nigger knocking." None of us knew what it entailed, but the way he said it made us all certain that it was something that cool kids did. We wanted in on it.<BR/><BR/>Upon returning to our friend's house, we started talking about it and discussing what it could mean, when her mother overheard our conversation and became furious. We couldn't figure out what we'd done wrong, but it was something so bad that she disbanded our sleepover and called all of our parents to take us home. <BR/><BR/>That night, my mother explained to me how some people don't like black people, how the n-word is an offensive term that nobody should use, etc. I felt extremely embarrassed for being so excited about such an awful activity, even though I couldn't have known any better.Jenni B.https://www.blogger.com/profile/09700504821285967720noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-85756623853869099262008-09-06T13:49:00.000-07:002008-09-06T13:49:00.000-07:00Thanks! That's so interesting. I'm familiar with u...Thanks! That's so interesting. I'm familiar with usage #3, "to behave or act in a manner stereotypically attributed to Caucasians", especially when applied to non-white people, so this non-ironic usage seems strange (and somewhat funny).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-113055134022929422008-09-06T13:33:00.000-07:002008-09-06T13:33:00.000-07:00Thanks restructure. I think the meaning of that ex...Thanks restructure. I think the meaning of that expression depends on who's saying it, and when (historically speaking), and in which context. As I understand it, back when it was common for white Americans to say it, it was a racist comment that meant either "thank you," or "that was a good thing you did." A <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play_the_white_man" REL="nofollow">Wikipedia page</A> defines it as a way of saying "Thank you for being fair."<BR/><BR/>Check <A HREF="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mighty+white+of+you" REL="nofollow">this page</A> and <A HREF="http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mighty+white" REL="nofollow">this one</A> for more current understandings, some from non-white perspectives.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-60775618002668784762008-09-06T13:14:00.000-07:002008-09-06T13:14:00.000-07:00This is a great post! I really enjoyed it.Can you ...This is a great post! I really enjoyed it.<BR/><BR/>Can you explain what “Hey, thanks, that’s mighty white of you!” means? I have never heard of this expression before reading your blog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com