tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post7065967899342357353..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: try to speed up hispanic assimilationmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-26793208457392016202009-11-18T00:52:41.823-08:002009-11-18T00:52:41.823-08:00I live in a west texas/border town with a hispanic...I live in a west texas/border town with a hispanic (mostly mexican) population of 80 percent the other 20 mostly white and my girlfreind was telling me that at the university there was these two guys speaking spanish and an older white person told them to "speak english or leave", and the spanish speaking students ignored him, however i do understand the comment the white said because in this town almost everybody speaks spanish and english (including whites and blacks) and some only spanish but with the influx of military families (mosly white and black) there seems to be some sort of cultural clash. I undersand if whites or blacks get offended because after all, whether you like or not, english is pretty much the offcial language (or to be politicaly incorrect its the unnoficial language), and i do encourage peopleto speak english for our visitors who are bring economic developement and not scare the whites away. Seriously, you could only know spanish and get around town, and some whites that dont know spanish cant even get McDonald jobs. Btw Hispanic names are anglo names or christian/european names, so i doubt its that hard to pronounce Jose,Jesus, or any other streotypical spanish name. <br /><br />I love living in this town, probabaly the only place where i could have a conversation in spanish with an American white or black guy, and as a Mexican, i believe some of the anti-spanish remarks are made from frustraion more than racism, at least from what i experienced.<br /><br />Because of this white assimilation attiude, the next generation of hispanics are not going to be able to speak spanish, remeber italians,asians,french and asian immigrants faced this problem...Elmer Gonzaleznoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-34143942996289708512009-11-04T07:30:49.426-08:002009-11-04T07:30:49.426-08:00http://xkcd.com/84/<a href="http://xkcd.com/84/" rel="nofollow"><br />http://xkcd.com/84/</a>comixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-55055539356321355622009-11-02T13:02:02.187-08:002009-11-02T13:02:02.187-08:00These brown berets got me thinking about the milit...These brown berets got me thinking about the militant style of garb seen by Latino residents of that small town in Pennsylvania after a Latino boy was killed by white teens (who got off by the way). I am by no means trying to pit POC against one another but I think as time goes by and other minority groups begin to realize discrimination is not just an daily annoyance but can also manifest itself in deadly acts of aggression, they more powerfully understand the plight of blacks (we, the bottom of the social barrel) and realize that complete assimilation is as dangerous as silence. There is nothing wrong with learning to speak English but when we start LETTING others change our names and tell us how to think, we endanger become homeless, subordinate, confused and self-hating.BlkSmarTeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03927491067161534228noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-63415891111948663702009-11-01T10:07:18.723-08:002009-11-01T10:07:18.723-08:00@ getreal, I don't know if you saw my post bef...@ getreal, I don't know if you saw my post before, but I pointed out that I'm from Texas, and you don't have to be able to read at all to get a driver's license, so that is total BS. Plus, under TExas law, you can drive on a valid driver's license from another country for up to a year. So obviouksy that is not what is going on here.Southern Masalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13247699189672764977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-10791273518959471822009-10-30T07:06:39.777-07:002009-10-30T07:06:39.777-07:00@getreal
1.Street signs are not instruction manua...@getreal<br /><br />1.Street signs are not instruction manuals. They're usually pretty simple. 'West', 'East', (Highway) '401', 'Broadway', and the rest is in pictures. This is because people who are driving don't have time to read long paragraphs. This is as complicated as it gets: http://www.majorlycool.com/media/1/20080118-confusing-street-sign.jpg<br /><br />2.There's such a thing as an international license where you can go to other countries, not speak a word of their language and still drive for a few months (the length of time varies depending on the country) on that. So, I think it is assumed that it doesn't take much language skills to know how to drive in that country.<br /><br />The driving test usually uses English that is more complex than street signs. The driving test IS the proficiency test.fromthetropicsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-41767097658722798992009-10-30T06:56:10.433-07:002009-10-30T06:56:10.433-07:00get real, i gather you're one of those peeps w...get real, i gather you're one of those peeps who likes to keep things simple?<br /><br />this woman had been in the states for twenty years -- she must have known how to read some english, and how to speak some of it. but under duress in the spotlight glare of a hostile officer, she probably blanked out and couldn't speak english. that doesn't mean she couldn't read stop signs and so on, all of which also have distinctive shapes. after all, she got a driver's license, ya know?AEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-57313814381928078792009-10-30T06:13:56.489-07:002009-10-30T06:13:56.489-07:00I think that if you have a liscense to drive in th...I think that if you have a liscense to drive in the US, where all the street and traffic signs are in English, you should have to at least pass a proficiency test or SOMETHING. That's just a common sense safety issue, not racist in any way. I think it's the same as being illiterate, and if you cant read English, even if you are American and can speak it, you shouldn't be able to drive. would it make sense to go to Turkey or Azerbaijan, or Spain, and drive there when you cant read any of the street signs??? If they were given a ticket for just being on the street and not speaking English when a cop came up to them, that's different, and racist. But just like your eyes have to be at a certain functional level to drive, so should your grasp of the English language.get realnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-71802516370985570022009-10-29T09:04:50.635-07:002009-10-29T09:04:50.635-07:001) What I find amazing is that often, the people w...1) What I find amazing is that often, the people who get so upset-- downright <i>offended</i>-- when they hear Spanish spoken in America (really, how often are people speaking Spanish to <i>them</i>?) are the very same people who travel to other countries and expect everyone to speak English to them. In other words, their attitude at home is, "Show some respect! You're in America; speak English!" And their attitude abroad is, "Gah! Your stupid language! Doesn't anyone here speak English?!" I've travelled quite a bit, and I've seen this with my own eyes. (It does not go over well.) No respect, no apology, no humility, it's: "what's wrong with <i>you?</i>" Note also that it doesn't matter if you speak 5 languages-- if English isn't one of them, you're uneducated and useless. Never mind that a shocking proportion of Americans have barely mastered one language.<br /><br />2) Is it me, or is learning English not always enough? Seems to me that even having certain <i>accents</i> is not allowed. The message seems to be not so much "start assimilating," it's, "stop having been foreign-born!" Eh?? (And yet, I can't tell you how many friends I've had whose Russian, or Italian, or Whatever grandparents never learned to speak English, and that seems to be okay.)karinovanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-60294046248361216422009-10-29T06:59:51.179-07:002009-10-29T06:59:51.179-07:00Yeah, a change of 'complexion' by an influ...Yeah, a change of 'complexion' by an influx of immigrants, legal or illegal, is usually disconcerting to any society. And this is regardless of class. For example, Asian immigrants to Australia are made up of both working class and upper-middle class people from Asia. Working class ones are accused of taking away jobs and tax money. The well-off ones are also accused of taking tax money - e.g. 'They buy such an expensive house and how dare they get a first-home-buyer's grant from the government like everybody else?' Or, taking away seats in universities. Or there's a sense of, 'They're from Asia, how dare they be well-off?' because, apparently, Asians are expected to be poor. So, it really doesn't matter what the newcomers are like, as long as they're *different*, people will find reasons for why 'these' people don't belong here. <br /><br />HawkMom said> There was an air of "I was here first, and I've reached this level and you're beneath me." Very strange, but nobody wants to acknowledge that. It's all "whitey, whitey, whitey".<br /><br />Actually, we did acknowledge it in a previous post. Russell Peters talks about it too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55OmE1L2sugfromthetropicsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-44807900127327915772009-10-28T19:41:14.763-07:002009-10-28T19:41:14.763-07:00I found it very ironic that the hotel thought hisp...I found it very ironic that the hotel thought hispanic names would be difficult for people to pronounce, especially since my whole life strangers, mostly whites, have mistakenly called me Maria or Mary.Marienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-60221062641794206272009-10-28T14:12:32.380-07:002009-10-28T14:12:32.380-07:00I never said Brazil was Spanish, only poorer, more...I never said Brazil was Spanish, only poorer, more corrupt, more inefficient and with much higher rates of illiteracy, unemployment, environmental degradation and violence against women and children than the US.<br /> I once asked some Portuguese immigrants why they didn't go to Brazil instead of the US; after all, British and Irish people tend not to go to Latin America but to other English-speaking countries.<br /> They said that Portugal hadn't done as good a job with its colonies as the British and that in the US there was less crime and you could make more money and not have to bribe corrupt public officials and schools to get things "fixed".Brad Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17381562723928616425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-41412628331999144192009-10-28T10:07:13.398-07:002009-10-28T10:07:13.398-07:00realism said...
White people shouldn't have in...realism said...<br />White people shouldn't have invaded their land/brought them over as slaves and forced them to speak Spanish in the first place. Sometimes racism DOES come back to bite people in the ass.<br /><br />Exactly, succinctly said!Herneithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-19401103418192400182009-10-28T09:50:25.772-07:002009-10-28T09:50:25.772-07:00The comeback I always use when a WASP says that La...The comeback I always use when a WASP says that Latino people should speak English or go home, is to say to them that if they are going to insist on speaking English, they can go back to England.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01134116554971956983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-49185645610386643872009-10-28T08:35:57.131-07:002009-10-28T08:35:57.131-07:00White people shouldn't have invaded their land...White people shouldn't have invaded their land/brought them over as slaves and forced them to speak Spanish in the first place. Sometimes racism DOES come back to bite people in the ass.realismnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-46693893540761128372009-10-28T01:41:14.892-07:002009-10-28T01:41:14.892-07:00'Generally I try to learn how to pronounce for...'Generally I try to learn how to pronounce foreign names correctly.' (capturedshadow)<br />A good-faith effort is all anyone can reasonably ask. If you think you can pronounce all foreign names correctly, all it means people are too polite to correct you. I gave up on learning Polish when I noted they have tree consonants and one vowel I could not distinguish or pronounce.Eurotrashnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-14190875139640245552009-10-27T20:33:23.909-07:002009-10-27T20:33:23.909-07:00@Hawkmom
Yes, thank you, you and I are in total a...@Hawkmom<br /><br />Yes, thank you, you and I are in total agreement. While it certainly does have a racial component to it, it's about "those poor, dirty, boarder-jumpers". Mexico is thought of as a place full of corruption and poverty, and Americans love to feel superior to everyone else.<br /><br />There are actually lots of illegal immigrants from Ireland. No one is afraid of "the diseases they bring" or "what happens when they can't pay for their hospital visit and we have to foot the bill?" At most, people assume they're associated with the IRA. The Irish/Irish-Americans* are still outsiders in America, but they're on the same economic level as America and people equate money with being civilized.<br /><br />Oh and people getting bent out of shape about the term "illegal"... that's what they call themselves/refer to themselves as. It's not a slur.<br /><br />*As in really Irish, not someone whose only attachment to their ethnicity is getting drunk every March 17th.Cloudynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-71036262365893411272009-10-27T20:20:40.489-07:002009-10-27T20:20:40.489-07:00@they're out to get me
I can understand the p...@they're out to get me<br /><br />I can understand the paranoia that a person can feel when being around people that speak another language. And if they turn, look at you, and laugh, then that just heightens it.<br /><br />However, ticketing someone for not speaking English and giving spanish people english-sounding names is blatantly racist to me. Nobody should have to change their name. EVER. It's a part of who you are.Elsarielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-63190246725665896262009-10-27T20:00:34.945-07:002009-10-27T20:00:34.945-07:00I'm guilty of thinking people speaking in othe...I'm guilty of thinking people speaking in other languages are talking about me. Once I was at the park and there was this group of girls speaking Korean. They said something then all turned and looked at me, then just burst out laughing. It really hurt my feelings / made me feel self conscious and I don't even know what they said.<br /><br />I've seen documentaries where subtitles reveal that people speaking in other languages really are talking about the person there, and to be honest, if I were the manager of a hotel or anything really I would want all of the employees to speak English for that very reason.<br /><br />I don't think the manager was racist. When people become so quick to call people racist, the term loses its meaning.they're out to get menoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-14467729961583424242009-10-27T19:38:33.534-07:002009-10-27T19:38:33.534-07:00I give you Exhibit C: I'm involved with a grou...I give you Exhibit C: I'm involved with a group of parents that has been fighting for fairness in our school system for the last four years, and lately has been meeting with school system administrators regarding translation of important parent documents into Spanish to facilitate better parent involvement throughout our community (26% Spanish-speaking according to one estimate). We had secured from the Superintendent of Schools a promise late last school year that the parent handbooks and code of conduct would be translated and distributed to all schools, and that there would be interpreters at all of this year's mandatory parent orientations.<br /><br />Score one for understanding and bridge-building, right? Wrong.<br /><br />This year, the parent who spearheaded the whole translation campaign went to his school's orientation and found no Spanish documents and no interpreters. We looked into it and found that, while the handbooks had been translated to Spanish, they weren't distributed to all schools, and no systemwide effort was made to secure translation for parents who need it. There were at least nine schools in our district that literally didn't get the memo.<br /><br />Notice that we weren't demanding to have classes translated, or homework in Spanish, or Spanish-speaking staff on hand at all times. Just the bare minimum that would help a quarter of our parents feel a little more at home in our school system (which, by the way, just started a major reform initiative - shows you how well it's doing...) and let them know exactly what is expected of them and their children, as well as the school's official disciplinary policies. Didn't happen, despite having been promised. THAT AIN'T RIGHT!<br /><br />This was one broken promise too many, so we escalated, and staged a protest outside the next Board of Ed meeting. Results here: <a href="http://www.newhavenindependent.org/archives/2009/10/parents_schools.php" rel="nofollow">the local independent Web paper</a> and <a href="http://www.nhregister.com/articles/2009/10/14/news/a3-nerally13.txt" rel="nofollow">the local mainstream paper</a>.<br /><br />The comments section in both articles, but most of all in the mainstream paper (and even worse in the Yale Daily News, which I won't even grace with a hyperlink) are full of "Speak English!", "OUR tax dollars funding this crap!", "Speak English!", "bunch of illegals...", "Speak English!" and even one "why can't they be like the Asian parents, who seem to have no problem?"<br /><br />The battle is ongoing.dejamorgananoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-22130866470991155992009-10-27T19:13:06.243-07:002009-10-27T19:13:06.243-07:00@Brad - what are you talking about?
Brazil is NOT...@Brad - what are you talking about?<br /><br />Brazil is NOT a Hispanic country. For the record.<br /><br />Back to topic,<br />"Speeding up Hispanic assimilation" has supremely racist undertones and it boggles my mind that anyone can't see that. It's definitely hard to say how (white)Americans would react to millions of (white)Canadians/other Anglo-Saxons streaming over the border "illegally", but that's a hypothetical. I apologize for derailing.<br /><br />I think the consensus is, among most (white)Americans, is that because the US is the "greatest", most powerful country on Earth, we are entitled to our monolingualism, almost as though we earned it; the whole rest of the world better just get with the damn program.<br /><br />America is, of course, only a melting pot for whites.<br /><br />(Please note sarcasm)Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15093368903588563112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-37687418871924653332009-10-27T17:05:30.048-07:002009-10-27T17:05:30.048-07:00Or people don't want us to become a colder ver...Or people don't want us to become a colder version of Brazil.Brad Evanshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17381562723928616425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-91101923246354102402009-10-27T15:19:02.541-07:002009-10-27T15:19:02.541-07:00Hmm, I don't remember everything I said before...Hmm, I don't remember everything I said before, but basically I was just saying that there were some people I know talking about the tickets for not speaking English in Dallas (I live there)who tried to act like it was some kind of public safety thing because drivers who don't speak English can't read traffic signs, which I thought was really stupid, and then I remembered that you don't even have to be able to READ to get a driver's license in Texas, because I took the test here (I stupidly let my out of state license expire), and the computer reads the questions and answer choices as you take the test. Even more evidence that the whole thing is total BS. <br /><br />I have also noticed that there are many people who consider "not speaking English" to mean speaking with an accent. I can't count how many times I have heard an interaction where one of the people speaking was perfectly clear and understandable to me, and the person listening just could not get it at all. More frustrating to me was the person not getting it, like really, it seems like you have never interacted within anyone who doesn't sound just like you, so that's why you have such a hard time understanding? This happens with my husband all the time, and he hardly has any accent at all. <br /><br />And don't get me started on the whole anglicize your name thing, I should probably just do a whole post about that and the issues it has caused between me and my side of the family (here's a hint, my husband's last name is Husain...)<br /><br />I did have some other comment about raising a bi-lingual child, but I can't remember it all, so I will just have to let that one go.Southern Masalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13247699189672764977noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-92093772577905099582009-10-27T14:51:38.186-07:002009-10-27T14:51:38.186-07:00If people really wanted to curb "illegal"...If people really wanted to curb "illegal" immigration, they would go after the employers who hire undocumented workers and paint them as the "bad guy" instead of the folks who come here because of the opportunities presented to them that they don't have a chance to obtain within their country of origin.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09887279569489057828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-38282069816142814222009-10-27T13:40:59.477-07:002009-10-27T13:40:59.477-07:00And I also think that at its worst, it's as if...<i>And I also think that at its worst, it's as if we're saying to them, even with a simple complaint about their English skills or their unfamiliar names, "Look, if we're ever going to accept you, you must become like us. But then, good luck with that. See, when you get right down to it, we are superior, and you are inferior."</i><br /><br />This has got me thinking. I really want to ask my mother if she's ever felt this way. I know she's experienced her fair share of racism and frustration from being bilingual (although, I think she speaks beautiful english if you ask me), but that was when I was a lot younger and she was less fluent. I wonder if she still experiences a sort of inferiority complex after all these years...<br /><br />*ponders*Elsarielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-479549987914911662009-10-27T13:29:59.019-07:002009-10-27T13:29:59.019-07:00SM, I've disallowed some others in this thread...SM, I've disallowed some others in this thread for being too far off topic, but I didn't get a previous comment from you.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.com