tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post6648319147985315534..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: think that because openly declared white supremacy is marginalized now, racism is deadmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-57086071309457152532010-08-05T14:01:08.612-07:002010-08-05T14:01:08.612-07:00One ex-friend of mine tried to claim that racism i...One ex-friend of mine tried to claim that racism in South Africa has "reversed itself" and "black people run the place now," which he "knew" because of some (white, obviously) friend who lived there. (His friend there also thought Tom Petty invented folk music. I don't think he was an expert on anything.)<br /><br />That really should have been a warning sign that this ex-friend was a racist, sexist piece of shit, but unfortunately it took a lot more than that for me to realize he was someone with whom I no longer wanted to associate myself.Ivy Hederahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08868634328466059048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-91171098213487955162010-07-12T05:26:33.243-07:002010-07-12T05:26:33.243-07:00I HATE the Daily Show and everything it stands for...I HATE the Daily Show and everything it stands for and I hate John Stewart!! He and his staff are just the Hannitys,Becks,and Limbaughs with 'but hey I'm a LIBERAL' badges. Memo to Mr. Stewrat I was born at night but it damn sure wasn't LAST night. Part of satire is not only excution but also intent and considering how he usually handles race issues like a recent skit with new arrival Olivia Munn he's made his intent perfectly clear. To ridicule and belittle all in the name of anti-racism which just ends up being RACISM itself anyway. If he's trying to be a wolf in sheep's clothing he should stop letting the snout show!!h8ernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-64706535790433096772010-07-08T22:10:57.594-07:002010-07-08T22:10:57.594-07:00If anyone wants to see how "far" South A...If anyone wants to see how "far" South Africa has really come, there is an interesting movie on POV (a PBS show) called Promised Land. It is about land reform in South Africa, and a lot of the facts are startling and sad, and definitely shows that while apartheid in South African is officially done, its heart still beats in the hearts of many.Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409225119134162318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79740137250386409252010-07-08T21:19:49.444-07:002010-07-08T21:19:49.444-07:00@Jane Laplain Well, I'm just the foreign cousi...@Jane Laplain Well, I'm just the foreign cousin who turns up every few years and eats everything in the fridge, so I don't know that I'm particularly privy to ongoing discussions. I think (and I'm purely basing this on my family, so you know, grain of salt) that where that will to discuss these things was already present, those discussions are had, while everyone else sort of rolls over. Does that make sense? <br /><br />My uncle and his family, they're the sort of people who will have these conversations, while his sister and her family aren't. My father left SA at the age of 25, partly out of disgust and partly out of a desire to see the world. He used to talk to me about the oppression of black South Africans and Apartheid etc as a child, and I know his brother did the same for his kids (all of this before the end of Apartheid), but their sisters is... not so inclined. And I don't think she ever would be.<br /><br />Anyway, I'm going for Christmas for the first time in years, I'll be interested to see if anything's changed!<br /><br />@figaro I hadn't thought of that interpretation, and I rather like it (as a concept) but I don't know that it was executed that well, since obviously lots of people didn't see it.JenRBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-38872176283411372112010-07-08T06:45:51.265-07:002010-07-08T06:45:51.265-07:00@ figaro
A much more pointed skit, I think, would...@ figaro<br /><br /><i>A much more pointed skit, I think, would have been for Oliver to actually confront the examples of systemic racism that are brought up in this post, only to then realize it doesn't "taste" as exotic as he thought. He might even say, "Well, this isn't unlike the U.S. in some ways."</i><br /><br />I agree. I think if he was trying to sell this, he just didn't do it effectively. We all know about the neo-Nazis up in the US Northwest and people can say, "yeah, those are REAL racists -- but we other white folks agree those people are evil, so racism isn't a real problem anymore, never mind that inequality/privilege stuff!" <br /><br />It just didn't bust the pretty common assumption that only vocal racists perpetuate it, so if there's a deeper layer, I didn't see it.Kaitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-67892695145959430062010-07-08T03:31:39.044-07:002010-07-08T03:31:39.044-07:00@ Jane Chaplain:
One word for you: CHURCH!!!!
Th...@ Jane Chaplain:<br /><br />One word for you: CHURCH!!!!<br /><br />That is one fallacious argument that I cannot STAND from WIWLs and other folks: that white people, if humored by black people and see that us darkies are actually doing "right" in their eyes, will actually band together and finally work on treating us right.<br /><br />SHIT. DON'T. HAPPEN. EVER.<br /><br />White people, when we were slaves, saw no problem in beating us, raping us, branding us, breeding us like cattle, and selling us on a whim.<br /><br />White people, when we finally attained freedom, saw no problem terrorizing us by burning down our houses, vandalizing our businesses, and killing our men women and children.<br /><br />White people, in nearly every time that we have existed in this country, believed that we were all just uppity darkies when we complained about the extent of racism on our lives, even going as far as MAKING UP MENTAL DISEASES to explain why we weren't so damn happy to be treated like shit.<br /><br />White people created laws against damn near every color on the planet to keep us beneath them.<br /><br />And now they want to claim that we should just GET OVER IT because we've come into a new millennium?? They want to claim we're being PC and silencing them when we call them out on their bs.<br /><br />And then they have the NERVE to quote MLK with their shit. Smh.PlusSizedWomanistnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-69762029338373722582010-07-07T22:04:11.826-07:002010-07-07T22:04:11.826-07:00Hmmm, I disagree that the joke was Oliver's in...Hmmm, I disagree that the joke was Oliver's inability to literally find a single racist. I felt it was his inability to find the sort of racism he seeks as a cultural tourist, thus parodying the practice of cultural tourism in general. I recognize that parody and satire are incredibly difficult styles to execute, but I thought this was actually a fairly successful example: so much of the skit hinges on his desires, his literal "tastes," his sense of being "cheated" as a tourist. In light of the most recent posts here on cultural tourism and racialicious's recent post on packaging on racist artifacts for tourism in NOLA (lynch cards???), it really struck a chord to me.<br /><br />That said, I would agree with the majority of the posters here that intent is secondary to impact, and in this case, the point is definitely confused by his seeming inability to find any form of systemic and casual racism, which implies post-raciality. And I was troubled by the choice of quotes ("forgive and forget"!? Aren't legacies of oppression the sort of think we're instructed to "never forget"?). A much more pointed skit, I think, would have been for Oliver to actually confront the examples of systemic racism that are brought up in this post, only to then realize it doesn't "taste" as exotic as he thought. He might even say, "Well, this isn't unlike the U.S. in some ways." He could then proceed to satirize cultural tourism without having to confuse the point in the way that he did.figaronoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-8898045497643356372010-07-07T21:04:51.792-07:002010-07-07T21:04:51.792-07:00let me put to you this way: the white youth who sl...let me put to you this way: the white youth who slapped Black folk upside the head while sittin' at the lunch counter tryin' to integrate Woolworths; and who formed a gauntlet to try to prevent Black kids from breaking the color line in High School and colleges; along with the church bombers, civil rights worker murderers...are the SENIOR CITIZENS OF TODAY!<br /><br /><br />case closed.Ronnie Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79660434695463481172010-07-07T19:59:24.818-07:002010-07-07T19:59:24.818-07:00@bloglogger. You wrote: I think it is these people...@bloglogger. You wrote: <i>I think it is these people, who think that "the racists" are the problem, not the fair-minded people like themselves, that jas0nburns is referring to as the 99%.</i><br /><br />Yeah, that's how I read his meaning, too. I was turning that definition back on WP (self included), even the ones who acknowledge systemic racism. As in, "Fine, go ahead and think that <i>racists</i> are people who hate POC because of their race(s). That's fine because, actually, your indifference to/enjoyment of white supremacy proves that you hate POC and, yes, you are racist too, no matter how <i>fair-minded</i> you think you are." <br /><br />So as to my own question of what's wrong with that definition, maybe painting 99% of WP with the label racist undermines the power of the word but would it really be so untrue?Karen Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-8396171322314659802010-07-07T19:03:22.638-07:002010-07-07T19:03:22.638-07:00"Why do WP have their own special definition ...<i>"Why do WP have their own special definition of racism?"</i><br /><br />Too easy.<br />The answer is: so it won't ever apply to them.<br />Duh!karinovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14324280726621881771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-1105854146981613272010-07-07T18:49:57.590-07:002010-07-07T18:49:57.590-07:00Karinova,
Could you guess which one was me? :-/
...Karinova,<br /><br />Could you guess which one was me? :-/<br /><br />And like you said, even without judging the content of the article, the entire premise was self-defeating.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-65479752667818569442010-07-07T17:06:34.561-07:002010-07-07T17:06:34.561-07:00"Please do not fall into the trap of perpetua..."Please do not fall into the trap of perpetuating the (false but common) belief that "white" is the default when you speak of "people"<br /><br />Actually I meant everyone in my original post not just WP but Karen was right, I can only assume POC have a deeper understanding of racism than most white people. It was definitely an oversimplification that works when describing WP but fails when describing POC, so my bad. <br /><br />I don't have any idea how widespread the belief that racism is more of a systemic issue than anything else is among POC. And even if I thought I did, this is SWPD.<br /><br />As for WP, it's pretty obvious that almost all of us think racism begins and ends with hating POC which in and of itself, isn't such a tough thing to unlearn really.<br /><br />So that kind of begs the question...Why do WP have their own special definition of racism?jas0nburnsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-40063472516483183772010-07-07T15:02:09.226-07:002010-07-07T15:02:09.226-07:00@jas0nburns (and bloglogger)... The original state...@jas0nburns (and bloglogger)... The original statement left out an important qualifier... 99% of WHITE people, or the vast majority of WHITE people may think that "the definition that racism is anyone hating anyone else because of their race", The original statement said "99% of the worlds population" believes that way, and as Karen pointed out, since the vast majority of the WORLDS population are POC, the MAJORITY of people in the world MOST LIKELY have a much deeper understanding of racism. Please do not fall into the trap that the of perpetuating the (false but common) belief that "white" is the default when you speak of "people"Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409225119134162318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-89259351882317963342010-07-07T14:49:48.749-07:002010-07-07T14:49:48.749-07:00Cecelia said...
"Wow, if racism really doesn&...Cecelia said...<br /><i>"Wow, if racism really doesn't exist anymore in America then I guess the ugliness I see with the Tea Party and outright bigotry from the Republican Party against the first biracial President is something I must have manifest in my head. And God forbid if I discuss such patterns of insidious racism in the media from television to online articles."</i><br /><br />I know, right? What was so freakin' weird about that Daily Show bit was... it's the Daily Show. Discussing those patterns of racism is EXACTLY what they do. Yet nobody saw a problem with this? If not that it's offensive, at the very least that it fails Logic & Reasoning 4ever? <br /><br />Honestly. If I were a non-white Daily Show writer, I'd be seriously questioning WTF I was doing there. Not (necessarily) in the sense of "eff you guys, I'm outta here," but more like, "am I being used for street cred?" You know, a couple Aasif Mandvi bits and a couple Larry Willmore bits to make everyone feel comfortable in their non-racistness, and then BAM! John Oliver brings the good stuff.<br /><br />No reason to think they haven't been thinking that all along, I suppose.karinovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14324280726621881771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-42294342929428042232010-07-07T14:31:34.815-07:002010-07-07T14:31:34.815-07:00@Jasmin,
Wow. That link. What a clusterbang.
There...@Jasmin,<br />Wow. That link. What a clusterbang.<br />There are at least six things wrong with that piece. And that's leaving aside the fact that it's terribly written (to the point of undermining its own thesis). I got to the end of it and all I could think was, "y'know, they eventually killed the kapos, too." [Sorry.]<br /><br />And even though I wanted to be—it is, after all, Change.Org's racism page— I was not at all surprised by some of the comments. There are definitely some white people on there who've found a New Brown Friend to use as backup.karinovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14324280726621881771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-59806238519750376622010-07-07T13:38:07.309-07:002010-07-07T13:38:07.309-07:00@Karen L re: "As in POC recognise that WP con...@Karen L re: "As in POC recognise that WP continue to support systemic racism (and condone other forms) and that this belies the fact that WP really do hate POC based on their race(s). In which case, what's wrong with the definition?"<br /><br />Even though there obviously are white people who harbor conscious hate and support systemic racism but don't act in hateful ways in terms of what they say and how they say it, there are still many more white people who sincerely believe in the equality of all people and genuinely respect people of color and yet still perpetuate systemic racism in ways they would not even recognize as racist. I think it is these people, who think that "the racists" are the problem, not the fair-minded people like themselves, that jas0nburns is referring to as the 99%. The figure may be hyperbole, but calling them the vast majority wouldn't be inaccurate, IMO.blogloggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01465639610604161309noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-12972688843039676762010-07-07T12:04:12.337-07:002010-07-07T12:04:12.337-07:00^^^ that should read less than 20 years ago.^^^ that should read less than 20 years ago.soulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-84766913220974519752010-07-07T12:02:05.700-07:002010-07-07T12:02:05.700-07:00@Jaddadalos
'even going so far as to suggest ...@Jaddadalos<br /><br /><i>'even going so far as to suggest that segregation in SA was worse than in the US'</i><br /><br /><b>It was.</b> <br />The US was not unique in its racism against black people and apartheid.<br />Segregation in SA became outlawed in 1994 less than 10 years ago.soulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035447940907993185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-66266233982391521952010-07-07T09:44:23.617-07:002010-07-07T09:44:23.617-07:00Yea, this skit bugged me from the beginning. It tr...Yea, this skit bugged me from the beginning. It trivialized the issue for both the US and for South Africa, even going so far as to suggest that segregation in SA was worse than in the US. These are false comparisons and lack historical context. This is dangerous. <br /><br />As much as I enjoy The Daily Show, there are people that look to this program for true perspective, but fail to supplement or lack the ability to filter and question. It's just as bad as someone going to FOX News for perspective with the same lack of follow up.jaddadalosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-21588989856711228402010-07-07T09:35:13.413-07:002010-07-07T09:35:13.413-07:00Speaking strictly from the perspective of one havi...Speaking strictly from the perspective of one having been raised in the United States... As far as I can see, White people have not done ANY collective "purging" around Race to claim post-racial anything.<br /><br /> Up until oh let's say 1960 (I'll be generous) Open White Supremacy was the <i>norm</i>. For 300+ years up until this point you would find White people claiming plainly and proudly that white was best and anything else was less. It was taken for granted as commonsense. It was enforced by law and by custom and it was considered madness to challenge the very concept that White people were not in fact the ideal outcome of the Human species. <br /><br />After the Civil Rights movement there were grudging legal changes made, essential changes but it was like pulling White teeth to be sure. U.S. mainstream culture soon transformed into the "We're all equal Race shouldn't matter" paradigm we operate under now.<br /><br />So. We are to believe that this transformation of White people's consciousness is complete, that it happened relatively over night and all without White People collectively examining their Racial Baggage at the cultural level? Really? Consecutive centuries of naked White Supremacy and BAM, its all better now?<br /><br />Maybe I missed something? Have white people, collectively speaking, ever turned to <i>each other</i> and said <i>"Wow. What made us think we were so much better than everybody else? Why were we so down on Blacks and Browns not even 45 years ago?? Why were we willing to bomb them, beat them, blast them with firehoses to preserve the status quo? What exactly did were we getting out of segregation anyway? And let's not get started on that whole slavery and native american genocide thing! Why does the idea of interracial marriage still make Grandma throw up in her mouth a little? Why did Grandpa think Lynching was just fine? What's UP with that?"</i><br /><br />None of that. None. White people have NOT purged their Race demons. Let me say this again: You can't go from 300+ years of taking extraordinary legal and illegal measures to enforce White Supremacy, of campaigns of violence and deliberate disenfranchisement to make sure every other Race knows they are inferior to The White RAce..... to suddenly becoming colorblind .... not without doing some MASSIVE CULTURAL INTROSPECTION FIRST. <br /><br />Maybe I'm wrong? Have White people been talking amongst themselves like this in the US or elsewhere in the world? I don't mean White People individually. Obviously we have individual white anti-racists. Obviously we have SWPD. But what about at the National or Global level, as a conversation <i>among white people themselves?</i> <br /><br />@ JenRB<br /><br />In South AFrica, where the end of legal Apartheid is still so recent, exactly HOW have the whites been adjusting there? Did they ever have the kind of conversation I'm talking about amongst themselves?<br /><br />I truly am curious!Jane Laplainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-77158776683725064412010-07-07T04:39:38.030-07:002010-07-07T04:39:38.030-07:00I didn't bother watching the piece because I p...I didn't bother watching the piece because I pretty much know the pattern of The Daily Show for some white liberal viewers. Wow, if racism really doesn't exist anymore in America then I guess the ugliness I see with the Tea Party and outright bigotry from the Republican Party against the first biracial President is something I must have manifest in my head. And God forbid if I discuss such patterns of insidious racism in the media from television to online articles. I would be cruxify as a race baiter playing the almighty race card or deem too sensitive and unintelligent. If there is one thing I have learn as a black woman, my opinions are devalue in any conversation pertaining to race and social issues. I am just whining about nothing. There is no honor in today's journalism. Then again, when I review journalism from the past throughout many significant events in world history, journalism has always been slanted to favor one particular perspective over another. And the online surge of racism is absurd. I don't even bother reading comments on Youtube anymore because race or racist comments somehow find their way onto 85% of youtube videos, regardless of the content's subject matter.Cecelianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79325131076219315382010-07-06T21:52:49.815-07:002010-07-06T21:52:49.815-07:00though i completely agree, i actually loved that p...though i completely agree, i actually loved that piece. i thought it was a good way to break the stereotype of south africa being racist, like africa is some "other world" where people are racist and war mongering and kill each other with machetes.allie bernhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15545374808533365863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-4121272855506489712010-07-06T21:38:41.527-07:002010-07-06T21:38:41.527-07:00@jas0nburns. You wrote: the definition that racism...@jas0nburns. You wrote: <i>the definition that racism is anyone hating anyone else because of their race, which unfortunately is how 99% of the worlds population thinks of racism.</i><br /><br />Don't you think that most POC, who are a rather substantional majority of the world's population, have a deeper understanding than this definition. <br /><br />Or perhaps you're getting at something else? As in POC recognise that WP continue to support systemic racism (and condone other forms) and that this belies the fact that WP really do hate POC based on their race(s). In which case, what's wrong with the definition?<br /><br />Anyway, who are these 99% of people you're talking about? Or what am I missing?Karen Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-13720231766393305572010-07-06T21:33:44.775-07:002010-07-06T21:33:44.775-07:00This post brings up an important point: White Supr...This post brings up an important point: White Supremacy is changing its nature to become more disguised and acceptable.<br /><br />In the USA for instance, it's not the KKK that is the true White Supremacist threat, it's Mainstream America<br /><br />The former has no real institutional power, while the latter is dominant, with its racism normalized through things like code words or even feeble attempts at humor (hipster racism).<br /><br />Welcome to White Supremacy 2.0Lxyhttp://asianamericanmovement.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-73020899117476327112010-07-06T21:16:14.691-07:002010-07-06T21:16:14.691-07:00I'm glad you did a post about this, because th...I'm glad you did a post about this, because the skit bugged me too. <br /><br />One problem I had with it was how it started off talking about racism in the USA, and then went on to, "but in South Africa...!"<br /><br />What exactly is meant by the comparison? Are American viewers expected to learn something from the skit? My feeling was that the piece was saying, "Why can't the USA get over its history of racial oppression the way that South Africa appears to have, based on the few random people Oliver talked to?" As a white person watching the skit, I got the impression that the black people that Oliver was talking to were implicitly being contrasted with the stereotypical angry black American. Especially the woman who lived through apartheid, and said that people have to forgive and forget; that made me think of white people who complain that slavery ended two hundred years ago or whatever, so why is race still a problem. <br /><br />I can definitely see the skit feeding racist attitudes towards African Americans.<br /><br />@ JenRB<br /><br /><i>There's an interesting sort of self-edit white SAers do around whites from other countries, where they don't openly express racist opinions because they assume we'll object, but it comes out anyway in the form of little lines about how Sally the Maid - sorry, "housekeeper" - needs to be kept an eye on because, you know, they need to be told, the poor dears.</i><br /><br />I've only ever met one person from South Africa, and this was exactly what she did; she talked about her family's housekeeper in the most infantalizing way.Marissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00598310548059926496noreply@blogger.com