tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post6432682314341644856..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: insist on telling people of asian descent about their own asian experiencesmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-73451049572288914712012-03-26T21:49:45.388-07:002012-03-26T21:49:45.388-07:00I'm from a West African country but also happe...I'm from a West African country but also happen to hold French and Canadian citizenships. These are a few things which often happen to me and how I address them:<br />- I've just met some white or Canadian-born non-white person, we're having a little chit-chat when suddenly, the person asks me where I'm from. I don't take offence at the question since I've been only living in Canada for about 7 years, so I always state my country of origin which is a certain West African state. Then, when I return the question to the person, I'll always get: "Oh, I'm Canadian." Excuse-me? I always fire back by asking them from what first nation they're from because let's face it, unless you're a descendant of the Inuits or a First Nation, you can't make me feel as if you've more right to call yourself a true Canadian than me. People I've asked that were at first shocked but they did answer me back by telling me where their parents or ancestors are from. I could read on their faces that they'll never ever ask that question again, at least to a non-white person.<br />- Like I said, I have French citizenship, was born there and spend more than 10 years there. When I'm with my fellow Canadian citizens, the white ones, they're always in awe of what another white Canadian person's going to tell them after spending... what 1, 2, 6, 12 months in France? It's gospel to them. Could I dare to correct any fallacy or stereotype that might be conveyed? I only meet blank stares which scream: "What do you know about it, hum?" Let's say, another French person or even someone from Western Europe shows up and decides to make some corrections about what the Canadian guy was saying, what happens? The Gospel effect, again!<br /><br />Although I spent my childhood and my teenage years in Africa, I've spent more than half of my life in Europe and North America. I know white people on both sides of the Atlantic enjoy telling you about their experiences of your country, showing you how abnormal it's of you to not like this famous singer of your country who does "World music" and let's not forget, how they went to that village and were welcomed as the Messiah. When I was younger, I used to deal with this load of crap, by smiling, nodding and keeping quiet. Now that I know better, I just tell the person that I don't enjoy those types of conversation and that I find them condescending and annoying.Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14624411899334689017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-29020340344896508532012-02-23T06:57:48.531-08:002012-02-23T06:57:48.531-08:00It's called Perpetual Foreigner Syndrome (coin...It's called Perpetual Foreigner Syndrome (coined by Dr. Frank Yu). It's the assumption that you have to be foreign (from somewhere else) by virtue of your race. A first-generation caucasian immigrant would never be subject to the same intensity of interrogation by perfect strangers as a fourth-generation Asian in the West. It's the idea of the manifest destiny of whites. It's like they are confronting a dilemma that there's an Asian person in their midst: "This is not one of ours, this one has to be from somewhere else." "California" is not an acceptable answer to the where-are-you-from question, because as Asian Americans know by now, that is followed by "but where are you REALLY from, originally."<br />http://www.zakkeith.com/articles,blogs,forums/anti-Chinese-persecution-in-the-USA-history-timeline.htmFourth-generation Asian in the Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01024786831016163690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-60283882568647965562012-02-21T18:48:46.511-08:002012-02-21T18:48:46.511-08:00As child, I was frequently spoken to in other lang...As child, I was frequently spoken to in other languages and one two occasions, scolded for denying my heritage. I am a dark complexion American who is of West African, European and Native American ancestry. I am from the earth.BuddaRedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05385334311114069053noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-43785910445666904372012-02-17T14:41:21.777-08:002012-02-17T14:41:21.777-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Fourth-generation Asian in the Westhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01024786831016163690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-47042638824720530562010-04-27T11:57:59.280-07:002010-04-27T11:57:59.280-07:00I keep getting error readings when commenting, but...I keep getting error readings when commenting, but I wanted to attempt to offer a more clear reason for my earlier remark with the hope that it will show that my apology was indeed sincere.<br /><br />I do find the question of where one is from to be frustrating and difficult. So knowing that, to be asked that question simply based on my appearance would be even more obnoxious. And then to have to suffer through a person's (probably guilt-ridden) thoughts and feelings about the place he or she perceives me to be from or culture from which he assumes I'm a part...well, that's even worse. So if I find that question annoying as a white woman, I bet I would find it waaaay more offensive as a POC. <br /><br />In my opinion, the best we can do with each other is start from a place we understand, something we have experience with, and use that as a stepping stone to attempt to understand the experiences of others. Sure, that understanding is going to be imperfect, but that's kind of the best we can do. I don't think my approach is that unusual, and in fact it's frequently recommended as a way to help others, especially children, understand discrimination. <br /><br />I am white and part of a multiracial and totally non-traditional family, both immediate and extended. I don't get singled out when I'm on my own thanks to that white privilege we all talk about, but my family is regularly for various reasons. I'll never understand fully what it means to be POC. But I have had several tastes of the obnoxious questioning mentioned here, of discrimination in other forms based on sex and language and life choice, and I do think that experience is valuable when it comes to identifying with the POC in my family and outside it. But I totally agree that none of us are experts on anything outside our own experiences.Xander and Alana (but mostly Alana)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11062663528956791645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-47758035071355933062010-04-27T11:04:56.779-07:002010-04-27T11:04:56.779-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.Xander and Alana (but mostly Alana)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11062663528956791645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-72550891067491128582010-04-17T11:09:28.981-07:002010-04-17T11:09:28.981-07:00I'm a white person and I've gotten this qu...I'm a white person and I've gotten this question before. But unlike "white boy", it's not because of my name, or a hometown connection, or any other BS. It's because to some people, I read as mixed-raced or exotic or whatever other racist thought a white person is having.<br /><br />I know exactly what people mean by "where are you from" and it doesn't matter that I'm actually white - what matters is that I have been perceived as an outsider and have been called out for it. I've been labeled exotic, different, a curiosity.<br /><br />It's fucked up. Especially when there's a level of sexism attached - when it's a dude clearly trying to hit on me and figure out what sort of weird brown person I am that he can add to his fuck-list.<br /><br />Please don't read this as me going "I know what it's like to be a POC!" I'm just sharing to make the point that the asker of "where are you from?" has certain ideas about race, culture, ethnicity and sometimes gender, and that, because those ideas have been put on me, I've experienced it as well.<br /><br />@Clay why do people need to know what race other people are? Are they taking the fucking census?Bnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-36413592585479581702010-04-03T11:54:07.060-07:002010-04-03T11:54:07.060-07:00@Clay,
I take offense at these questions and yes,...@Clay,<br /><br />I take offense at these questions and yes, I DO think it's racist when obviously the first thing they see and identify and exoticize about me is the color of my skin. Often in these situations they haven't even bothered to ask me my name! They are clearly NOT interested in me as a person, but as an exotic foreign object. Moreover, why aren't white Americans ever approached with the same question as a conversation starter? Instead, they are seen as an individual, asked their name, what they do, etc. Nobody starts a conversation with "what color are your eyes?" with white Americans.clhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00227699349849828151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-28823981456196795322010-04-03T01:50:55.827-07:002010-04-03T01:50:55.827-07:00I realize that this response is coming a couple we...I realize that this response is coming a couple weeks after this post was made and might not be read by anyone but I have to ask: is the problem in this situation with the fact that the old man asked 'where are you from?' opposed to 'what ethnicity are you?' or is it with the fact that he'd be solely interested in ethnicity at all or is it just that the question was asked simply as an excuse to talk about himself?<br /><br />In all three situations I'm still not convinced that the guy did something horrible in asking the question. Is there a problem with an individual's curiosity regarding someone's ethnicity? Impolite, sure, but racist? I don't think so. I see it as almost equivalent to someone asking 'what color are your eyes?' And common, the guy was old. Old people like talking about things that they've done. I don't think that him being white had anything to do with that (and besides, would you expect someone upon receiving an answer to their question to just say 'oh, that's interesting'?).Claynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-25912643077115159272010-03-27T13:25:55.832-07:002010-03-27T13:25:55.832-07:00but you know what, i say hi to people i dont know ...but you know what, i say hi to people i dont know either. i just think its being polite.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00852725916965032744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-55995707368107642102010-03-22T10:26:42.955-07:002010-03-22T10:26:42.955-07:00I can really relate to this post, as I've expe...I can really relate to this post, as I've experienced the same thing on numerous occasions. Especially because I grew up in a white neighborhood, and only had white friends till high school. <br />When I was younger, (older) white people would ask me over and over if I've gotten used to the cold in winter (my parents are from Suriname, I was born in Holland), applaud me for my good Dutch vocabulary or make mean comments on my hair, the most baffling ones coming from adults. One time when my teacher lit up a sigaret in class (this was 1997, I was in the fifth grade)I said he couldn'do that as we were kids who shouldn't be exposed to the smoke. He got mad and called me a 'fish wife with stupid, ugly hair.' I'm not kidding...guess I should be glad this didn't happen to me:<br /><br /> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Aq1WeS6VCs<br /><br />In the first two cases, I never got mad or expressed my frustration. Still, these kind of questions bug me because I always consider other people's feelings before verbalizing any of my thoughts. Why can't other people do the same thing?Maureennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-67487885130035614692010-03-21T19:39:50.906-07:002010-03-21T19:39:50.906-07:00@Andrea Thank you! Yes my daughter is only 6 and ...@Andrea Thank you! Yes my daughter is only 6 and we've already had problems with her kindergarten teacher telling her in class one day that she was Chinese (even though we had told the teacher many times she was Mongolian). She came home very upset and we had to pull out her adoption pictures and the atlas to show her that Mongolia was really a country and that she was from there. So when people assume she is Chinese we are very firm in correcting them.Vailnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-91462340062978641672010-03-21T15:45:01.702-07:002010-03-21T15:45:01.702-07:00white privilege is the assumption that they can ta...white privilege is the assumption that they can take whatever liberty they please to indulge their curiosity about you however rude or unseemly...Once you've been branded "the Other" any subject is fair game...white people presume to know you better than you know yourself...you are a physical object to be touched (black folk with locks experience this on the regular) without your permission...but when you call them on their stupidity, they act if there's something wrong with you...ronnie brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07986056708679132837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-19761537444554645492010-03-21T05:18:59.881-07:002010-03-21T05:18:59.881-07:00[white boy, I'm not going to publish that comm...[white boy, I'm not going to publish that comment because you're being rudely obstinate. If you read <a href="http://www.derailingfordummies.com/#butbut" rel="nofollow">this</a>, you might understand why I say that. ~macon]macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-37881021701739075582010-03-20T19:29:29.718-07:002010-03-20T19:29:29.718-07:00@whiteboy
yes.
@Jennifer
I thought the question ...@whiteboy<br />yes. <br /><br />@Jennifer<br />I thought the question about being aggressive was great. Depending on the situation, since as you know it can be dangerous (as others have commented on) to be aggressive, I like to play the aggressive part every now and then just to scare the willies into wf (white folk) when possible. For me, it's a matter of asians being seen as passive and generally "nice" ppl that others can walk all over. To be more specific, my aggressive responses are usually directed at wfs that ask me that question, because it is definitely coming from a different place when they ask that question. There's no need to elaborate on that here, but if you ever find yourself in a position where it is safe for you to do so, I think you should sass it up and smash it back in their face.<br /><br />@DIMA<br />It's one thing when people are truly interested in your background as a person as opposed to when they are just looking to prove a point that they know you ain't from here and they know it. Even if they don't... You could their ears off and nothing'd ever come of it...Drowned Lotuseshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06537623198024160480noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-60656723703499884302010-03-20T16:40:29.782-07:002010-03-20T16:40:29.782-07:00One of my old teachers was guilty of this as soon ...One of my old teachers was guilty of this as soon as he discovered that I am African (Nigerian) he began to tell me all his stories about him living in Kenya and South Africa and Botswana. He was boasting about it actually "Oh when we lived in Kenya we blahblahblah. Black people there are blahblahblah" good thing I can tune people out, now I'm working on how to sleep with my eyes open LOL.Aishyohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08031950862460724191noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-58973031524721680572010-03-20T16:13:24.754-07:002010-03-20T16:13:24.754-07:00Sean - While in general it would be appropriate fo...Sean - While in general it would be appropriate for WP to back off and listen, when the WP is the parent of a PoC, it is essential to *stand up* and *speak.* It is only by modeling for our children, whether we are white parents or parents of color, that we can teach our children how to respond to the white privilege exerted upon them in the grocery store, the library, the school, the playground, the ice cream shop, everywhere we go...<br /><br />I think Vail's point was that her child is too young to decide for herself when/whether it is safe or productive to engage, or what to say, so Vail is making the decision and modeling for her as part of her commitment to raising a strong, resilient daughter who will someday make these choices for herself.<br /><br />And in terms of "commoditicizing" ~ unfortunately, the reality is that another part of white privilege is that many white folks feel entitled to ask (literally) "how much did s/he cost?" if your child doesn't match you. Or variations thereof ("is her father black?" "are they sisters?" etc.), in front of the child.<br /><br />And, as many of the commenters have noted, the adoptive parent must decide how to respond in terms of information/privacy, politeness/rudeness, compliance/self-assertiveness, tight smile/"fuck off" ~ with the additional aspect of knowing your child is watching *intently.* Any white parent of a child of color worth their salt spends a lot of time learning, practicing, trying this out, making mistakes, trying again, and again. <br /><br />I really liked D W Jazzlover's practice of responding with "I am here." There are plenty of times when sharing more is appropriate later on, but starting with the present seems like a good way to defuse the folks who think they just have the right to know.Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08530907405909262201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-25311810991580104682010-03-20T15:54:26.846-07:002010-03-20T15:54:26.846-07:00several years back, an experience i had as a cashi...several years back, an experience i had as a cashier at a pharmacy:<br /><br />white male customer: are you thai?<br />me: no. why.<br />white male customer: oh because my wife is thai and you look like her.<br />me: [honestly, can't remember what i said but i do remember not masking my irritation--very passive, i know. i was just disgusted, embarrassed, and horrified that a fellow asian woman was married to such a creep.]<br /><br />that wasn't the first nor the last time. creepy, ignorant folks everywhere!<br /><br />+++<br /><br />another experience during my cashiering days, a dirty homeless man wandered into the store, possibly also mentally unstable and looked straight out of the hippy 60s, pigtails almost down to his belly button:<br /><br />dirty man: are you married?<br />me: i don't have to answer that.<br />dirty man: [incoherent mumbling, getting visibly angrier by the second, as a line of customers forms behind him]<br />me: can you please move aside so i can help these other customers<br />dirty man: you know what?! you need to get laid!!<br />[at this point i called the manager up to the front who had the balls (middle-aged woman with a limp) to yell at him to get out of the store]<br /><br />+++<br /><br />can't say the second experience necessarily had to do with my being asian, but i sure did feel violated.Chicagonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-62613559793631707852010-03-20T15:06:44.317-07:002010-03-20T15:06:44.317-07:00Hi everyone--this is Jennifer, the guest poster. ...Hi everyone--this is Jennifer, the guest poster. I've just read through all the comments and wish I had the time (or that blogger would allow me the space) to respond to everyone, but I just wanted to say thank you for engaging with my post so deeply--esp. for those of you who felt a real connection with the heart of what I was trying to convey: the frustration of being targeted with unsolicited, invasive, and aggressive questions.<br /><br />I think something that I want to really reinforce is that what was particularly troubling to me about this interaction with OWM was that I did not ask for it. I wasn't in a situation where it would be natural for 2 strangers to chit chat. I know that I said that in "the South" people like to talk, but even when faced with talking to strangers, there is usually an explicable context: the grocery store check-out clerk, the postal carrier in my neighborhood (who actually isn't a stranger but has become a friend--the nice side of Southern living), even sitting next to someone on an airplane. There is a natural tendancy to strike up a conversation and for some, to carry that further. When I was giving blood a few years ago, a white nurse asked me what my nationality was. I'm not sure if it was because she was sticking a needle in my arm or I could detect a different tone in her voice, but I didn't give her the run-around (I hate the nationality question because it presumes I'm not a U.S. citizen/Asians are foreign stereotype) and I just simply said "I'm Chinese American," and she just beamed at me and told me her granddaughter was from China and we had a very nice conversation about what the adoption process was like for her son and daughter-in-law and about resources for her granddaughter (this was in a very white part of central MA) in terms of books and films to learn about what it means to be Chinese American. I walked away from that conversation glad that I had not reacted hostilely and glad that we had such a nice exchange--a real conversation.<br /><br />But OWM? He didn't want to engage me--he wanted to talk AT me. He wanted to make it all about HIM. And in that way, it felt very much like a power issue--very much about his privilege (white and male) to ignore my visible non-verbal signs of DO NOT TALK TO ME and push on with HIS agenda of what HE wanted to tell ME.<br /><br />And that? That pisses me off.Jenniferhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13261371053113519712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-12564116055872532302010-03-20T09:01:58.748-07:002010-03-20T09:01:58.748-07:00@white boy
*sigh*
i can't do a long respons...@white boy<br /><br />*sigh* <br /><br />i can't do a long response to your second posting right now. i. just. can't.<br /><br />however, your comment makes clear that you think that your experiences/experiences that white people have in the world when they interact with other whites have exactly the same meanings/potential/effect/etc. as do interactions between whites people and people of color. <br /><br />surprise! it's NOT the same, because of history, because of present-day racism, and because of white privilege. <br /><br />i would suggest you start reading here:<br /><br />http://www.case.edu/president/aaction/UnpackingTheKnapsack.pdf<br /><br />and also spend some time reading all of the great resources Macon has compiled in his comment guidelines section, before you comment again<br /><br />http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2010/02/commenting-guidelines.htmlMissCegenationnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-53186461616150956972010-03-20T08:02:59.026-07:002010-03-20T08:02:59.026-07:00I had no idea that people of colour are so offende...<i>I had no idea that people of colour are so offended by the question.</i><br /><br />For me, it's not the question itself that offends. It's the fact that the person asking usually doesn't really care to know the real story. They just want an explanation to why you look the way you do. So then they get to box you up with all their stereotypes, and tell you Asian stories. <br /><br />But if they genuinely want to know, then I don't mind. <br /><br />Speaking of which, I moved to a new office recently and I've met 8 of my new office mates. Only the two foreigners out of the 8 asked me where I'm from. That was their first question after we exchanged names. I was happy to answer because I felt that it came from a place of, "Hey, you don't look Aussie, I'm not Aussie either. We got something in common." But I also noticed that none (if I remember correctly) of the white Aussies asked me where I'm from. I find this interesting and am wondering if they're hesitant to ask lest I get offended.fromthetropicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03920987423034922878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-83287493272792764652010-03-20T01:16:48.782-07:002010-03-20T01:16:48.782-07:00@RVCBard
Please elucidate.@RVCBard<br /><br />Please elucidate.Sammynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-41820244132365097822010-03-20T00:47:34.386-07:002010-03-20T00:47:34.386-07:00I do think that with white people there are gradat...I do think that with white people there are gradations of "where are you from". Sometimes it is an educational opportunity especially if you are a fairly new immigrant, etc. With certain regions, it's an attempt to place you among something or someone familiar. And sometimes people are simply curious. But sometimes however, to POC, it seems like an attempt to suggest that you aren't "American" and that rankles POC who consider themselves American. I am black and do not identify at all with "African-American", I find it an odd term. I can trace my lineage pre-Civil War, so to me I am American, I don't need a qualifier (I realize my minority position on this). And that's what irritates me and some other POC. <br /><br />There is also an implication that you are somehow exceptional to your "race" because clearly, you aren't like the "others". Maybe it's because as the OWM eavesdropped he didn't perceive her as being what he perceives as a stereotypical Asian or one from the country he thought she was from, or believed that she was a first or second generation immigrant. And that's another problem. This strange pretense that ignores that many POCs were born here, this is the home and the culture we know and though some of us may have immediate relatives from other countries, we ourselves are American. And that is what's so insulting. <br /><br />I have had the very same conversation though to me I am a fairly average medium toned black woman. Where are you from? NYC. Where are your parents from? NYC. Where are your grandparents from? South Carolina. And you begin to feel like NO answer is going to make them happy until you admit to something that is NOT AMERICAN. In smaller cities, I am regarded as black, in larger cities, I'm often mistaken for black/latina. Not every POC is a recent immigrant, and many of us are fifth and sixth generation Americans. It's like what I imagine zoo aminals feel like. Oh look! There's one! It's walking upright! Let's go talk to it! It's a GREAT ADVENTURE! You'd be annoyed too if you dealt with this constantly and people thinking it is perfectly okay to intrude in your space to assuage their inner racist by bothering you. <br /><br />And WTH is with the eavesdropping? I thought this only happened to me, my mom and my daughter when we go out. We practically have people sitting in our laps, unabashedly eavesdropping and then striking up conversations with us.Pockysmamanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-23302533300191069732010-03-20T00:13:19.672-07:002010-03-20T00:13:19.672-07:00Wow, and this whole time I never knew I was a whit...Wow, and this whole time I never knew I was a white supremacist... Thanks for enlightening me, I guess.<br /><br />This entire comment thread is full of people talking about their own experiences, but when I do it, it's "derailing" and "racist" and "annoying"... because I'm white?white boynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-31676028702110786202010-03-20T00:09:55.431-07:002010-03-20T00:09:55.431-07:00Thank you for this, Jennifer. Too many times I...Thank you for this, Jennifer. Too many times I've been asked where I was from and had people guess what ethnicity I am. What annoys me are all the things they're implying. Simply put, Asians are not looked at as real Americans. We have always been viewed as perpetual foreigners. It doesn't matter if we're naturalized citizens, if we were born here, or if our family's been here for more than four generations--people look at us and "American" never registers in their minds.<br /><br />"Where are you from?" "Where are you <i>really</i> from?" "Wow, your English is so good!" "Can you say something in your language to me?" "Are you a foreign exchange student?" It's so infuriating! I can't believe people don't understand why I get offended when they bombard me with questions that suggests all Asians are immigrants or foreigners.<br /><br />Glad to see some posters admit that they've done this in the past. Hopefully more people wise up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com