tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post4519682842960954998..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: invoke strangely colored peoplemacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger64125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-92203508417846197632013-08-29T19:20:24.479-07:002013-08-29T19:20:24.479-07:00Tangent - Way late to the party here, but Mozilla ...Tangent - Way late to the party here, but Mozilla did NOT put out Blackbird. Mozilla's Firefox is an open source browser, which means anyone can copy the code and redistribute it. The company 40A, Inc is the company that created Blackbird - http://gizmodo.com/5105846/blackbird-web-browser-because-firefox-is-too-navajo-for-black-web-surfers<br /><br />(as someone who works for Mozilla, it hurts that people would associate this segregative act as coming from this company).Sheeri K. Cabralhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13990877688502800403noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-54793565700045782932013-01-05T18:21:26.337-08:002013-01-05T18:21:26.337-08:00One early episode of the sitcom "The Big Bang...One early episode of the sitcom "The Big Bang Theory" inadvertently does this with sexuality. One character is basically asexual, and when he's out of the room another character asks about him, "So, what's his deal? Is he into girls? Guys? Hand puppets?"<br /><br />On the surface the joke seems harmless, but there's an underlying implication that "hand puppets" is a sort of "humorous extreme" on a scale from heterosexuality to homosexuality to hand puppets; so the joke is an example of heteronormativity. (Especially in context of the subsequent joke, but that's tangential.)<br /><br />This is a related part of what's going on with "strangely colored people". "White" is normal. "Black" is abnormal. In order to establish that I'm <i>so</i> un-racist, I just have to inform you that I <i>wouldn't even care if the person was green</i>, which is so abnormal it puts "black" in the middle! Top <i>that</i>, person-accusing-me-of-racism!<br /><br />Meanwhile, there's a comment by late comedian Mitch Hedberg about it which I can't decipher as anti- or pro-racist. He brings up that people say this, and he adds "Hold on. Purple people? No way, man, you gotta draw the line somewhere." My optimism drives me to the "anti-" side, that his joke is basically that bringing up purple people is ridiculous because they don't exist. But I'm not sure. It's maybe one of those awful attempts at "ironic racism", or something else entirely.Lenoxushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10809085020841868387noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-53947003240192117582012-07-30T21:29:08.508-07:002012-07-30T21:29:08.508-07:00Great stuff. I am becoming sensitive to my blindne...Great stuff. I am becoming sensitive to my blindness, or lack of empathy. In fact, I am scanning through my past looking at ways in which I uncomfortably shut down the entire subject of race in an impatient way considering that I was above such simple behavior as my perspective is focused on the merits of each individual that I come in contact with. In fact, the broad swathe of egalitarian logic that I operate under is really just a screen to keep the unpleasant realities from shaking my core being. <br /><br />Interesting. This blog post and even more so the great posts have given me a key of sorts to march out from under the monolithic umbrella and open up the world. Of course I said key, which means that this process will not be easy, as I must begin developing a part of myself which has been underdeveloped due to being warmly wrapped up in the subtle blanket of privilege. <br /><br />I have prided myself in having authentic connections with other races as I have a talent of treating people with basic respect and fresh slates, but I have been one dimensional and in fact a manipulator of sorts. I manipulate sincere behavior as a means to disarm others and attempt to lead them to my level of thinking, irresponsibly without thinking about the suffering and the need for a narrative. It seems that language and narrative are important tools for making sense of this almost invisible dialogue that is taking place. <br /><br />I will embrace this subject and learn more about myself and others. Of course I am a neophyte and whatever my thoughts now, I am sure something more mature will develop out of this development. Thank you, I am amazed at how ignorant I have been to this reality.Nathaniel Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12103198713200308015noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-51434733544967943162011-05-25T11:01:12.444-07:002011-05-25T11:01:12.444-07:00Wow. I thought of using this once, e.g. "I do...Wow. I thought of using this once, e.g. "I don't care if she's green!" when someone apologetically told me that a prospective caregiver was brown. I just thought it emphasized that I *really* don't care, which is in the end what I did say. I didn't see it as racist, which I guess is my cultural blindness, although race is not nearly the issue where I live that it is in the U.S. I'll be more conscious in future.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-9720209714375250822010-06-27T22:25:07.333-07:002010-06-27T22:25:07.333-07:00I also have been irritated by the tendency to add ...I also have been irritated by the tendency to add strange colours, but not been able to articulate why, thanks. I think I can link that forced "whatever" to straights holding forth on the topic of gay marriage "I don't care if someone can marry a man, a woman, a donkey, whatever!"Kitenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-27832678225190687232010-05-08T05:51:36.937-07:002010-05-08T05:51:36.937-07:00fzgg,
That common white tendency you're enact...fzgg,<br /><br />That common white tendency you're enacting there makes me think I should expand <a href="http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2008/04/explain-away.html" rel="nofollow">this post</a>.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-90397482234428689972010-05-08T01:41:59.059-07:002010-05-08T01:41:59.059-07:00In my experience, it isn't used as a way of di...In my experience, it isn't used as a way of dismissing anything, or saying "I don't want to talk about race because it makes me feel uncomfortable", but more that, if you say black/white, then you're dismissing asians etc, so then you include yellow, and red for Native American people. But that sounds ridiculous because peoples' skin colours aren't actually black, or yellow, or red. So if you say "black, yellow, red" it can already seem like you're using ridiculous colours to refer to people, so you may as well include purple as well so people don't jump on you with "YELLOW!? How racist! Asians aren't actually yellow!!".fzggnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-10881542209772536752010-02-04T16:18:01.648-08:002010-02-04T16:18:01.648-08:00@Tom:
-- did you just link me to derailingfordumm...@Tom:<br /><br />-- did you just link me to derailingfordummies.com to suggest that I'm using stock phrases from that to kick you around, or to imply that I'm derailing you?<br /><br />Just to be clear to make sure I'm reading you correctly, this is my understanding of your words;<br /><br />1) You felt the opinions of other posters who disagreed with Macon were dismissed without being listened to, so you want to establish a proper situation in which you'll be listened to.<br /><br />2) I see myself themselves as better than you and lecture down to you with my superior knowledge, much like any other type of "in crowd" who wants to show off how much better they are.<br /><br />3) You also feel that my goal is to condemn and dismiss you, and I will reject any stance or argument you take that disagrees with me, regardless of whether or not it has a valid point. That I'm not going to listen to you or acknowledge what you have to say.<br /><br />4) You are honestly trying to learn or at least, feel that I should accept that you're trying to learn because you are reading/commenting on a anti-racism blog in the first place.<br /><br />5) You found my snide comments about taking your toys home and the world not being your mother dismisses and talking down to. And yes, they totally were. I freely admit I find the "this needs to be said right or no one will learn" argument irritating, frustrating, and completely derailing, but you're still right to call me on being a bitch about it.<br /><br />Tom, my attitude -- and while I can't speak for all of my, um, "in crowd", whoever they may be, I'm sure this goes for many of them too -- comes from the fact that I used to think <i>exactly like you do</i>. Like, some of your wording makes me flinch because I've said the same things and gotten my feathers ruffled in exactly the same ways. You are right in that most of what you say isn't going to make me change my viewpoint to be more amiable to your stance, but part of that is because it's a viewpoint I've already moved away from.<br /><br />And to round this all back up around to my original statement: you still aren't talking about the original point of this post OR racism. You're talking about how you aren't willing to talk, express your points, or yes, learn, unless you feel safe and included.<br /><br />Because I didn't say it before: there isn't anything wrong with that. It's natural. So natural that it constantly takes over and derails racism threads all over the internet.<br /><br />Also, thanks for saying I'm jumping a bandwagon here, that so made my day, you have no idea.sadiekohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05427963519406321325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-21560255223914398372010-02-04T14:31:32.348-08:002010-02-04T14:31:32.348-08:00@sadieko
Determining the best way to encourage a ...@sadieko<br /><br />Determining the best way to encourage a multicultural discussion on racism is a very important first step to discussing racism. Which is exactly my point -- that you are NOT having a "discussion" here. You are holding a lecture from two groups of people, namely the group of whites who agree with macon d and apologize for their actions, or the group of PoC who agree with macon d and are offended. Any other viewpoints are quickly and viciously dismissed. Sure, I could try to put forth my viewpoint on the topics posted. But because I watched the previous commenters either fall in line or be dismissed without a moment of consideration, I realize that would be futile. Which is why I chose to start from the beginning.<br /><br />I object to your immediate assumption that I have not learned and am refusing to learn anything. On the contrary, I think the fact that I was obviously actively searching for and reading through blogs about racism indicates that on some level I would like to learn more. <br /><br />And I have learned a lot. Specifically about the types of people who make and comment on blogs like this. You've formed an "in crowd" of people who agree with you, and catalogued all possible responses to your position for easy dismissal (see derailingfordummies.com). I'll bet you have half of your response to my comment in your head already, even though you haven't finished reading. You are so ready to condemn and dismiss anyone who doesn't fall in line that it will be almost impossible for your viewpoint to change.<br /><br />Of course this happens with almost all internet communities. The regulars eventually become so sick of trolls that they develop an array of quick and dirty responses to anything anyone else might say. It's not isolated to discussion on racism. I've seen the same behavior on forums ranging from video games to physics to weightlifting. In terms that you can understand -- you (and posters like you) immediately attempt to assert your superior knowledge of the topic over newcomers by dismissing their arguments and talking down to them (e.g. "The rest of the world is not your mother" , "you'll pick up your toys and go home").<br /><br />Ultimately, this blog serves a purpose, even if it wasn't what I was looking for. There are some people who do need ideas bashed into their skulls, and others who need bandwagons to jump on. You can kick me off your wagon, and laugh at me rolling around ignorantly in the dust, but in the end we're all headed the same direction.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />TomTomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-78459271739210364542010-02-04T10:50:55.078-08:002010-02-04T10:50:55.078-08:00@Tom:
The problem with your argument, as well mea...@Tom:<br /><br />The problem with your argument, as well meaning and well thought out as it may be, is that right now you aren't discussing racism. You aren't discussing the ways in which a racial majority intentionally or unintentionally represses the minority. You aren't discussing how invoking inhuman skin colors alongside human skin colors is dismissive. You aren't even discussing the various other points about racism brought up by other commenters.<br /><br />All your argument does is say that you -- and those you speak for -- refuse to learn anything not told to you nicely. That it has to be carefully structured to make you feel included and safe and not made out to be the bad guy, or you simply won't learn. You'll insist that this is about racism, that you are trying to learn, but that "no one is helping you" and no one is telling you want you want to hear. After all, no one can <i>blame you</i> for doing something wrong if no one will <i>teach you</i> what's wrong, right?<br /><br />And once you're done with your argument here, whether you've gotten someone to agree with you or accepted that no one will, I highly doubt that you'll start discussing racism. You'll pick up your toys and go home.<br /><br />That's the problem with ALL "tone arguments". They hijack the discussion, turn it into "this makes me feel defensive because it's not clear that it isn't calling me a bad guy" and the original point, no matter how important or unimportant, is lost completely. You don't want to talk about racist behaviors or actions. You just want to talk about how having racism pointed out makes <i>you</i> feel.<br /><br />Everyone who has sincerely tried to further their understanding of racism and what it means to be anti-racist will tell you this:<br /><br />It is a bitter, bitter pill to swallow. It will hurt going down. You will confront things about yourself, your family, your race, and your country that you don't like. If you were raised a liberal Democrat like I was and always patted yourself on your back for your open-mindedness, the realization of how much internalized racism you have or racist actions you unthinkingly perform will be very, very hard. No one can make this easier for you. It's no one's JOB to make this easier for you. <br /><br />The rest of the world is not your mother.sadiekohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05427963519406321325noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-35400949272232899142010-02-03T18:10:33.228-08:002010-02-03T18:10:33.228-08:00@Other Becky
Yes, I guess I just saw that the aut...@Other Becky<br /><br />Yes, I guess I just saw that the author was white and assumed that meant this was a place for people of all races to discuss racism (unlike sites like AngryBlackWoman which are more obviously places for PoC to vent). The author's response to my post further supported this belief, as he made it sound like his goal was to help white people take a deeper look at racism / white privelege. This goal seems to necessitate the inclusion of white people in the discussion. That being said, if I am incorrect I apologize and withdraw my criticism.<br /><br />Again, I understand that it is necessary for people to have safe places to vent, and I am not trying to encroach on this privelege. However, I think the tone argument has some validity when used in the context of what is supposed to be a discussion among multiple viewpoints. It is imperative that all people involved in such a discussion feel comfortable sharing their true feelings, otherwise it is unlikely that any progress will be made. A discussion is not one group lecturing and another group biting their tounges.<br /><br />If you know of any sites that encourage such unrestrained discussion I'd be excited to see them, but I would be surprised if many existed, for two reasons:<br />1) Most people don't really want to discuss/debate but simply want others to confirm the views they already have. They have no intention of changing their opinion, regardless of what anyone else says.<br />2) Due to the anonymous nature of the internet, I can see most of these discussions devolving into violent hatemongering on both sides.<br /><br />@fromthetropics<br /><br />Upon reading back I didn't make my point very clear. What I'm critiquing is not the lack of specific examples, but the addition of blanket statements against "white people" that I find unnecessary and in fact detrimental to the author's proposed cause. I think the examples provided are sufficient to spark a discussion without needing anything else.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-63595996571436438312010-02-03T09:04:53.180-08:002010-02-03T09:04:53.180-08:00I believe I said that a better way to make people ...<i>I believe I said that a better way to make people understand the insensitivity of their actions would be by proxy (that is, use a concrete example and let the reader consider the similarities of their own lives to the example).</i> [Tom]<br /><br />Huh? Am I missing something here? The original post gives at least 4 specific examples. How many more would you like? Do you have a specific number in mind?fromthetropicsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79502206702455020742010-02-03T08:44:49.864-08:002010-02-03T08:44:49.864-08:00Tom: I think we're talking about different thi...Tom: I think we're talking about different things. You were asking for a space that wouldn't alienate white people. I'd have to double check, but I'm pretty sure that's fairly easy to find elsewhere. <i>This</i> is meant to be a space in which PoC can freely voice feelings, thoughts, and opinions without having to worry about hurting my precious white feelings. That's not so easy to find, and nobody has any right to step in and ask people here to start self-censoring so they don't make me feel bad. If you don't like hearing the things people here have to say, nobody's forcing you to read them.<br /><br />The "tone argument" comes up all over the fucking place. Virtually any time a group of oppressed people have a safe space to talk freely, somebody will come in and say, "You guys would have more success if you weren't so hostile!" But you know what? If somebody's going to refuse to become an anti-racist/anti-sexist/anti-homophobic/anti-transphobic/etc. ally because oppressed people don't much enjoy the experience of oppression and occasionally say so in less-than-polite terms, that person wouldn't have been much of an ally anyhow. If I feel defensive in response to something I hear, here or elsewhere, that's my problem.<br /><br />And as far as the "white people aren't allowed to disagree" trope: people here are saying "this is how racism affects me. These are my experiences, and these are my feelings and my thoughts." Nobody's allowed to disagree with that. I mean, people <i>can</i>, but denying another person's reality doesn't actually make it unreal. It just makes the denier, at best, willfully ignorant, or, at worst, an asshole.Other Beckynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-74853982953210952142010-02-03T07:52:10.119-08:002010-02-03T07:52:10.119-08:00Becky, just because someone has written a dismissi...Becky, just because someone has written a dismissive response to an (admittedly often dismissive) "tone argument" doesn't invalidate it.<br /><br />Please read back in my comments and find the parts where I say people should "make white people feel okay about ... racism" ? On the contrary, I believe I said that a better way to make people understand the insensitivity of their actions would be by proxy (that is, use a concrete example and let the reader consider the similarities of their own lives to the example). I'm not saying they should feel okay; I'm saying that beating them senseless with anti-white mantras is not the best way to produce this feeling of discomfort that often leads to self-reflection that I think is the ultimate goal of this blog.<br /><br />Now, back to the "tone argument". The response to the tone argument is usually "white people don't get it"/"we have every right to be mad". In one sense, yes, POC have every right to be mad. And it is probably healthier that they have several mediums in which to vent their anger lest it cause physical or mental problems later on (as bottled up emotions tend to do). <br /><br />That being said, the "tone argument" is often thrown out in what people like to refer to as "discussions of race". Now, as I understand it, a "discussion" is a lot like an informal debate. That is, there is a topic or problem that people are talking about, and people put forth and support several differing viewpoints to better resolve the problem. The problem with the common response to the tone argument in discussions of race, is that the discussion quickly devolve into a groupthink convention.<br /><br />Imagine a debate where one group of people is immediately dismissed as not understanding the topic based on the color of their skin. This group is essentially told that if they don't agree with what the other people are saying, they are simply wrong. Furthermore, they are evil! To me this sounds more like a witch-hunt then a debate. If you want to bash whites, I respect your right to do that. But don't dress it up as a "discussion" when it is nothing of the kind.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-11223393678315259812010-02-03T07:12:45.287-08:002010-02-03T07:12:45.287-08:00Tom: Google "tone argument." Also, why o...Tom: Google "tone argument." Also, why on earth should anyone put themselves out to make white people (like me) feel okay about bigotry and subconscious racism? I read this blog <i>because</i> the comments make me uncomfortable. The system we live in, one which privileges white people, makes POC uncomfortable (and worse) every damn day. If I find out that I'm doing and saying things that support that oppression, <i>even if I don't mean to</i>, I SHOULD feel uncomfortable.Other Beckynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-46595566275108712882010-01-31T21:19:19.151-08:002010-01-31T21:19:19.151-08:00I support your goal but I guess I just don't s...I support your goal but I guess I just don't support your methods. From reading both your blog and the comments, it doesn't seem like what you are doing here is helping you reach this goal. <br /><br />Instead, I think that you are simply further driving a wedge between "white" people and POC. From the comments I think it is pretty obvious that many people don't respond kindly when being told how bigoted they are. I'm not saying bigoted behavior is acceptable, but approaching the subject from a more genial angle might encourage self-reflection instead of a knee-jerk anger reaction. <br /><br />For example, the obviously inflammatory blanket statements about "white people" you insist on throwing around. Statements like this immediately alienate most people and put them on the defensive. As a result, they are far less open to hear any further points you have to make.<br /><br />If you stick to concrete examples and use them to illustrate problematic behavior (e.g. "My friend Tom invoked strangely colored people yesterday. I feel this is insensitive because..."), you won't come off as immediately attacking the majority of white people. <br /><br />In short, I think this blog could encourage self-reflection in many people if it wasn't so focused on condemning and alienating white people.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-36615821376184778762010-01-31T19:27:01.966-08:002010-01-31T19:27:01.966-08:00Tom, I won't speak for others in the "hor...Tom, I won't speak for others in the "hordes" you're talking about, but what I want is for white people (myself included) to realize that they still live in a de facto white supremacist society, and to stop doing stuff that supports that aspect of their society. I want them to realize that because of that aspect of their society, they've got it generally better, in an uncountable number of ways, than non-white people do. I'd also like them to realize that they often behave, usually without even realizing it, in ways that better their own lives at the expense of others, and they often do the wrong thing toward POC when they think they're doing the right thing. I basically want them to realize that being classified as "white" has a hell of a lot more to do with who and what they are than they usually realize. <br /><br />I actually do agree that "you can't please everyone." But I don't agree that that means you should only please yourself (as white people are typically taught to do).macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-52530230814752855592010-01-31T19:17:32.166-08:002010-01-31T19:17:32.166-08:00To the hordes of angry racially charged people -- ...To the hordes of angry racially charged people -- what do you want? Please describe your ideal world to me. Because as that poor poster above mentioned, sometimes it really feels like you just can't please everyone. (I'm talking about the girl who described her miserable living conditions growing up, to be condescendingly chiding for not realizing her "privilege").<br /><br />If you simply want to be angry and left alone with your anger, that's fine. But it might be beneficial to you to consider a more optimistic outlook on life and people in general.Tomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-11189306711456481452010-01-31T11:37:57.893-08:002010-01-31T11:37:57.893-08:00Another interesting topic. I never thought about ...Another interesting topic. I never thought about the reason for white people doing that in that context. I myself have heard it numerous times. Maybe it's a way of disarming any racial aspect of the conversation in advance? That makes sense for some of the posted statements, but perhaps not all of them.<br /><br />It is odd this going beyond actual skin tones into blue, gold, orange, etc. I think specifically, this might be an expression of subconcious dismissal of PoC. I mean why else place fictional skin pigment in with the conversation? It seems like a racist undertone.blueshieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05783819792853498462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-76023570477159414422010-01-31T08:58:43.030-08:002010-01-31T08:58:43.030-08:00Jeff,
You're not proving to be a very carefu...Jeff, <br /><br />You're not proving to be a very careful reader. Look again at these lines in this post, and then think about how they apply to what you're doing here and in other comment threads:<br /><br /><i>If this form of "colored-people" listing really is a white habit -- a common white tendency -- then why do a lot of white people do that?<br /><br />I think the reasons vary, but that it's mostly an effort to avoid discussions of race, and sometimes to shut them down completely.</i><br /><br />What have you got against a focus on whiteness?macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-71339898193408714412010-01-31T08:18:22.650-08:002010-01-31T08:18:22.650-08:00You're over-analyzing the multi-color comment....You're over-analyzing the multi-color comment. I was raised to know and believe that there are good people and bad people from any culture or background. Give a person a chance to show you their talents and their personality before labeling them because of outward appearance. My comment on the other post came from that background. I don't know any other perspectives on race, because I only have my own experiences and influences in my life. I don't internalize other people's lives because I'm happy with my life, family, friends. I care for others and treat others as I would like to be treated. I believe that there is still alot of racism out there, but the race gestapo tactic of taking every seemingly innocuous comment and bending and shaping it into something evil is wrong and usually stems from someone who doesn't have confidence in themselves.jeffnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-60923902053864861792009-06-29T21:38:10.202-07:002009-06-29T21:38:10.202-07:00Anonymous, does it take all that much time, wealth...Anonymous, does it take all that much time, wealth and so on to read this blog?<br /><br />As for those who have such priveleges I think they should indeed be becoming more aware of what's white about themselves and their ways.<br /><br />Also, have you noticed that a lot of poc read this blog? What good do you think it might be doing them?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-77585541974649398392009-06-29T20:57:44.678-07:002009-06-29T20:57:44.678-07:00@Macon_D
Fair enough, my comment didn't in a...@Macon_D <br /><br />Fair enough, my comment didn't in any way relate to the original post, it was triggered purely by the comment and your response, so in that sense it was entirely off-topic (and a bit snippy).<br /><br /> It bothered me that you didn't even use the word 'class' in your reply, when the original post seemed simply to be pointing out that there are other forms of privilege than racial ones. You simply compared a working class or poor white person's unawareness of racial privilege with that of an upper-middle class person's - and there is also a difference to be acknowledged there as well as a similarity.<br /><br />But one thing that does bother me at times about your blog (which I sometimes find informative and sometimes annoying) is that this intensive analysis and concentration on language and reading the right academic books, sometimes seems to turn 'anti-racism' into a marker of class. Those with the wealth, time, education and articulacy can carefully learn all this stuff and claim the moral highground over the less well-read plebs - while not actually changing the economic structures. As some of your (rather ferocious) critics here have said, it sometimes seems to stray close to 'etiquette training'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-3556211885085516042009-06-29T19:34:19.846-07:002009-06-29T19:34:19.846-07:00There's no deep structural inequality of power...<i>There's no deep structural inequality of power that gets replicated from generation to generation then?</i><br /><br />Of course there is. That happens in terms of class, and race, and gender, and sexuality, and religion, and so on, and they're all working "intersectionally," as they say these days, often all at once. But this blog is called "stuff white people do," not "stuff upper-class white people" or "lower-class white people" do. (At the same time, as the blog's subtitle implies, the posts are rarely about something ALL white people do.)<br /><br />If you see specific posts where attending to class matters would sharpen or clarify the point being made, then please do point that out in a comment, instead of unhelpfully plunking a broad charge like that in the middle of things, seemingly at random.<br /><br />What, for instance, is the connection between social class and the particular post you chose for placing your comment, the tendency of some white people to say things like the following? "I don't care if a person is black, white, red, green, or purple, I'll love 'em all up and down 'til the cows come home!"<br /><br />Are you saying that's something said more often by members of some certain class than by others? If so, again, I'd appreciate hearing your explanation and evidence, as well as why you find that worth pointing out.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-85968332266349962362009-06-29T19:12:58.902-07:002009-06-29T19:12:58.902-07:00Macon D said...
" I'm not surprised th...Macon D said...<br />" I'm not surprised that you haven't felt a whole lot of white privilege in your life. Even people much better off financially than you've been don't normally feel it, or think about it--we've been trained not to. It's like men thinking less about the significance of their gender than women do; if it's a set of advantages, rather than disadvantages, we tend not to think about it all that much."<br /><br />A bit like the way you rarely notice class, even here where it's been all but explicitly mentioned you don't seem to notice it. It's just that some are 'better off financially'. There's no deep structural inequality of power that gets replicated from generation to generation then?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com