tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post2295767804578995237..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: refuse to listen to foreign speakers of englishmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-49427099575201433102010-06-24T01:14:56.582-07:002010-06-24T01:14:56.582-07:00Very late in coming here and commenting, but could...Very late in coming here and commenting, but could not resist. I'm a Japanese woman (hi tee!) who grew up in Southern US, bilingual without noticable accent in either language. When I worked as an English teacher in a Japanese high school, we had other native English speaking teachers from US, Australia, NZ, Canada, UK. At first, none of the US teachers could understand the accent of the teacher from NZ, so others from Canada or Australia or myself had to "translate." <br />Everyone except myself was white, so I mostly considered this a predominantly American issue, although I also think race comes into play as well. For example, Singaporeans can also be said to be native English speakers, but because they "look" Asian, their English is considered "not real," instead of just another dialect.Waverlinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15525095967739836130noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-25224500074639390352010-06-22T21:23:48.363-07:002010-06-22T21:23:48.363-07:00Really good post. I think this is very true.
Alth...Really good post. I think this is very true.<br /><br />Although I do think in some cases tech support callers want Americans to have these jobs... which is nationalist, but not the same thing as being frustrated and unable to understand someone. I usually get tech people in India and their accents are not hard to understand (and their English is quite good.)<br /><br />In other cases, people are just not used to those who don't talk the way they do (other white people). It's kind of provincial but not uncommon. <br /><br />When I lived in the UK I heard that call centers were often based in Wales because people all over the UK found the accent "pleasant" and easy to understand (and I heard many people rip on Birmingham and Geordie accents, call them touch to understand, etc.)<br /><br />English With An Accent by Rosina Lippi-Green is a great book which largely focuses on accent discrimination.Kaitnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-54895020026319029232010-05-31T06:08:40.187-07:002010-05-31T06:08:40.187-07:00I think I can speak pretty positively on this subj...I think I can speak pretty positively on this subject. As I have witnessed first-hand the difference between how white and non-white foreigners are treated when speaking. I am a biracial Canadian, born to a mother of European descent. She was born in Finland and brought with her a very thick Finnish accent. As far back as I can remember, people listened patiently to my blonde-haired, blue eyed mother when she spoke, even commenting on how 'beautiful' her accent was. As an adult I have a Jamaican father in law and he has a very thick Jamaican accent. He is a very successful businessman and entreprenuer and is very likely the most educated man I know. This is coming from someone whose worked amongst politicians, engineers, doctors and lawyers during my career. However, when he speaks I've seen people who don't take him seriously. Often people mock his accent and I have even heard people speak to him with the stereotypical "Yah Mon!" accent. Case in point, I think you hit the nail on the head here.cazingalenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-83722854095597982442010-02-22T14:31:31.490-08:002010-02-22T14:31:31.490-08:00I'm Japanese (female) and live in the U.S. for...I'm Japanese (female) and live in the U.S. for 10 years. I speak English, but I have hard time having a good communication with especially white female because they must have felt unbearable to listen to my accented English. I overheard some mean comments too. <br />I'm glad that somebody like you mentioned about this, because this is not openly discussed so much.<br />I hope more American people at least try to be patient with non-European foreign speakers.teehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16679337789167649565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-29783753884681916952009-02-12T05:38:00.000-08:002009-02-12T05:38:00.000-08:00@ Phoebe:Black immigrant girl talking...Why should...@ Phoebe:<BR/>Black immigrant girl talking...<BR/><BR/>Why should your parents put more effort into it? They're already mad that their stupid Dell broke down, they've been waiting on the phone forever, and now someone on the phone is taking way to long to help them. <BR/><BR/>When I travel (France and Scotland (lol, I know it's English but damn both sides did not understand each other in the exchange)) and butcher people's language, I've had them walk the hell away from me. Were they being racist? I really don't think so.<BR/><BR/>This girl (I think she was Cape Verdean) in a dry cleaning store overcharged me. As I'm waiting, to nicely tell her about her mistake, these two white women come in and yell at her about losing their clothes. It looked bad. White women yelling at the black girl with the accent. The girl really messed up people's stuff though.<BR/><BR/>I'm sure some white people are being prejudiced/racist in the interaction but sometimes I feel it isn't about that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-30334718197551636812009-01-03T01:00:00.000-08:002009-01-03T01:00:00.000-08:00Very interesting post. I've experienced something ...Very interesting post. I've experienced something like this, albeit a bit differently. See, my native language is Spanish, but I've been bilingual practically all my life, taking English classes since first grade. By now I barely even have an accent, or so I've been told. However, I still find it hard to understand spoken English when the person speaking has an accent (or when they're mumbling, or when they speak too fast). British accents are hard for me to understand, as are Chinese and Indian accents, and Southern USA accents. Every time I've been in a situation in which someone speaks to me and I don't understand because of their accent, I get very very embarrassed at having to ask them to repeat themselves. I see it as a deficiency in my understanding of the English language. Basically, the thought process that goes on in my mind is "Come on, you've been bilingual for nearly 30 years, you should be able to understand what they're saying!" and then I just feel bad about it.<BR/><BR/>I felt mortified reading in your post about the woman who refused to listen to the Asian cashier lady because she supposedly didn't understand her. How could she (the customer) be so rude? If I'd been in that situation and I didn't understand the cashier I would have felt so embarrassed about my bad understanding of English... :-[Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-14022015576968880532008-12-28T01:22:00.000-08:002008-12-28T01:22:00.000-08:00I kind of thought this post was a bit unfair.... I...I kind of thought this post was a bit unfair.... I mean, have you ever tried to understand a Scottish accent if you've never heard it before? that accent is very difficult to understand, especially if you've never heard it before or rarely hear it. <BR/><BR/>I'm hard of hearing a bit, so it's difficult for me to understand ALL foreign accents, including European accents, and also domestic accents. It's partly due to the fact that I'm hard of hearing, but also because I haven't *heard* many accents on a daily basis. I think that's the key.... a lot of people don't hear these accents on a daily basis, so it's difficult to understand. <BR/><BR/>I know if people listened to foreign (and domestic) accents every day then it would be easy to understand and not get so frustrated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-74808537659943169512008-12-26T05:28:00.000-08:002008-12-26T05:28:00.000-08:00However, if you just LISTEN instead of tuning out ...<I>However, if you just LISTEN instead of tuning out as soon as you hear an accent, they are 98% as understandable as native-born Americans.</I><BR/><BR/>I work in an international environment so I listen to "foreign" accents all the time. And I understand them. <BR/><BR/>So often these people will apologize for their "poor English." Yet, I always say that my (fill in speaker's language here) could NEVER be as good as their English.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-49705969291362742542008-12-22T10:42:00.000-08:002008-12-22T10:42:00.000-08:00Interesting as always, Macon. I used to work for a...Interesting as always, Macon. I used to work for a call center based in Oregon, and the center's management definitely used our location for marketing purposes- apparently, the English spoken in the Pacific Northwest is thought to be especially free of accents. Note that we never claimed that our operators would be accent-free, just that our call center was located in a relatively accent-free part of the US.<BR/><BR/>This was a good thing, since our population here in the NW is demographically very diverse. I'd guess that about 1/4 of our on-phone employees were originally from either Latin America, or South or East Asia. To management's credit, I never saw any hiring discrimination based on nationality or accent- as long as somebody's English was fluent, and they had good phone skills, it didn't matter what sort of accent they had. So, we ended up having a large number of excellent phone reps whose accents covered a very broad spectrum. <BR/><BR/>The problem was with our customers. Oftentimes, customers who ended up on the phone with an accented operator would assume that they were dealing with a foreign call center, and would often get quite indignant about it (and be very rude to the operator in the process). My office was right next to the phone pool, and I would routinely hear one of our operators- who was originally from Pakistan- patiently explaining, in his barely-accented English, that he was indeed located in Portland, Oregon. Sometimes, whatever customer he was on the phone with would actually ask to be transferred to a manager- not because he was cranky with the level of service being delivered by this operator, but because he was convinced that the operator was a foreigner and wanted to complain to a manager about it. The first few times this happened, the manager would come by after a few minutes to apologize to the operator and tell him that he'd given the customer a geography lesson and a lecture about manners... it seemed to get really old, though, for both of them. <BR/><BR/>I tell you what- I'd always considered myself to be relatively polite when it came to my dealings with call-center staff, but after actually working in one I've tried to be even more considerate and patient. The person on the other end of the phone is usually genuinely trying to help you, but has to do so within what are potentially very rigid constraints and, depending on the call center, under somewhat oppressive conditions. The least we as customers can do in return is to be polite- if you can't understand the person on the other end, there are ways to ask them to speak a bit slower without being rude about it.stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03648247617479738747noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-57772449358985378052008-12-22T09:45:00.000-08:002008-12-22T09:45:00.000-08:00I'm a white guy that speaks with an accent.There h...I'm a white guy that speaks with an accent.<BR/><BR/>There has been plenty of times people have gotten frustrated with my pronunciation. I want to tell them that it's not my fault English is such a f'ed up language.Markhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08959521227538416703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-87255198338244849052008-12-20T12:20:00.000-08:002008-12-20T12:20:00.000-08:00A poster above mentioned having to "translate...A poster above mentioned having to "translate" the English of their non-american-born friends & family for other American-born people.<BR/><BR/>For real!<BR/><BR/>I have several friends, both white and non-white, who immigrated to America and so speak with a "non-standard" accent. However, if you just LISTEN instead of tuning out as soon as you hear an accent, they are 98% as understandable as native-born Americans.<BR/><BR/>Yet in social situations, restaurants or stores I find myself always needing to "translate" for them, i.e. repeating what they said in perfectly understandable (though differently accented) English in my native-born accented English.<BR/><BR/>It's obnoxious. It's like some people relish making their life just a little bit harder.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-72140464801566709682008-12-20T11:28:00.000-08:002008-12-20T11:28:00.000-08:00This is a great post and it's SO true. It drives ...This is a great post and it's SO true. It drives me nuts.<BR/><BR/>As a white highschooler in Texas, I noticed that white kids are often praised for being smart enough/interested enough to keep pursuing another language because it's so difficult to learn another language. Yet, those same teachers will blast the non-honors students as being "stupid" and "ignorant" even when they're able to speak another language (usually Spanish). Could just be coincidence, but knowing how xenophobic and anti-immigrant the white students are here, I doubt it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-84049819239514915072008-12-20T10:56:00.000-08:002008-12-20T10:56:00.000-08:00This also sounds a little like what what Miranda F...This also sounds a little like what what Miranda Fricker calls <A HREF="http://nigelwarburton.typepad.com/virtualphilosopher/2007/07/book-review-mir.html" REL="nofollow">testimonial injustice"</A>: "Testimonial injustice occurs when others fail to treat you seriously as a source of knowledge." <BR/><BR/>It's like the patron refuses to take the Asian cashier's word because she isn't speaking proper English, so how can she <I>possibly</I> know anything?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-63978897479479616572008-12-20T04:53:00.000-08:002008-12-20T04:53:00.000-08:00This is probably more true for white Americans who...This is probably more true for white Americans who have never left the country and have never had regular experience with other accents than for those who have more exposure to more than other white Americans.Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09239497370370468057noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79052935678033895182008-12-19T20:20:00.000-08:002008-12-19T20:20:00.000-08:00Anonymiss, it probably is common among both white ...Anonymiss, it probably is common among both white and non-white Americans to demand that foreigners speak English. Something here that does seem like a problem with whiteness, though, is the higher level of tolerance and patience with European/white speakers of English as a second (or third, etc.) language. Whether white Americans or non-white Americans are doing that. If they are doing that, maybe it's a part of that psychological phenomenon that Toni Morrison summed up so succinctly when she wrote, "American means white." Maybe European speakers with non-American accents seem less foreign to most Americans, even non-white Americans, than non-European ones do.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-7200186206842012412008-12-19T19:54:00.000-08:002008-12-19T19:54:00.000-08:00Hey Macon,I don't see this as a White problem. Fr...Hey Macon,<BR/>I don't see this as a White problem. From my experiences, I've seen this as an <I>American</I> problem. It's as if a foreigners aren't worthy of being listened to with patience.<BR/><BR/>I find it laughable when Americans demand that foreigners (or those speaking their native and/or more comfortable tongue) "speak English!" With the bevy of Americans that can barely string sentences together, where do they even get the nerve?Anonymisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13030472200941563001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-14486211016119268012008-12-19T15:56:00.000-08:002008-12-19T15:56:00.000-08:00By the way, speakers of tonal languages have the h...<I>By the way, speakers of tonal languages have the highest percentage of people who have perfect-pitch.</I><BR/><BR/>I need to rephrase what I wrote [quoted above]:<BR/><BR/>Most people with perfect pitch are speakers of tonal languages.redcatbikerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08645491470348404443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-84848948773902850332008-12-19T11:00:00.000-08:002008-12-19T11:00:00.000-08:00Well, well, well call it coincidental but my mothe...Well, well, well call it coincidental but my mother and I were having this conversation earlier this morning for the gazillionth time.<BR/><BR/>You see, my mother is from Jamaica and it offends her when people do that. It is not hard by any strecth of the imagination to understand her. Her English is fine since what she has is an accent and not a language disparity but she gets it anyway. <BR/><BR/>She spoke about how intense and hurtful it was when she first migrated here.<BR/><BR/>My mother owns a small businesses in mostly white towns in New York She often times sends her white American employees to deal with customers.RhondaCocahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08893778198428146584noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-7284955676502832132008-12-19T04:11:00.000-08:002008-12-19T04:11:00.000-08:00I didn't say that English is easy to learn, I said...I didn't say that English is easy to learn, I said: "English isn't especially difficult to learn compared to other languages"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-3848203666602618122008-12-18T22:10:00.000-08:002008-12-18T22:10:00.000-08:00@ Macon - The most common accent in SAE is more of...@ Macon - The most common accent in SAE is more of a media accent (the one actors learn in speech class) that is common on the East and West coasts.uglyblackjohnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14404995571276457138noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-61872678744309054862008-12-18T17:45:00.000-08:002008-12-18T17:45:00.000-08:00English is easy to learn?enouGHthrouGHGHastlyI was...English is easy to learn?<BR/><BR/>enouGH<BR/>throuGH<BR/>GHastly<BR/><BR/>I was always told that English came from the German language. A fact I always found hard to believe, especially with the written language, for I could never see similarities between the two! Anyway, jw, your first language is German, yes? So, for you, given the aforementioned "fact", English would be an easy language to learn.<BR/><BR/>Now, if you are a speaker of a Latin language (French, Spanish, Portuguese, Romanian, or Italian), then English, with most of its words ending in consonants (closed sounds, just like German), which is unlike the Latin languages, the majority of its words ending in vowels (open sounds), English is a bitch of a language to learn!<BR/><BR/>Also, if you speak any tonal language, then English, actually any non-tonal language, is very, very difficult to learn. <BR/><BR/>By the way, speakers of tonal languages have the highest percentage of people who have perfect-pitch.redcatbikerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08645491470348404443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-42248300545139477542008-12-18T15:42:00.000-08:002008-12-18T15:42:00.000-08:00jw and macon, of course English is easier to learn...jw and macon, of course English is easier to learn for those with first languages related to English, but still harder than many overall, because of as macon says, its "mongrel" history, due especially to so much colonization. I found this illustrative list that I remember a teacher showing to us as students. I think it helps to show how patient Americans should be with any speakers of a different first language (and I certainly agree that many white folks seem more impatient with such non-white folks).<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://www.englishforums.com/English/EnglishDifficultLearn/nlcp/post.htm" REL="nofollow">21 Reasons Why The English Language Is Hard To Learn</A>: <BR/><BR/>1) The bandage was wound around the wound. <BR/>2) The farm was used to produce produce. <BR/>3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse. <BR/>4) We must polish the Polish furniture. <BR/>5) He could lead if he would get the lead out. <BR/>6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert. <BR/>7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was <BR/>time to present the present. <BR/>8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum. <BR/>9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes. <BR/>10) I did not object to the object. <BR/>11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid. <BR/>12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row. <BR/>13) They were too close to the door to close it. <BR/>14) The buck does funny things when the does are present. <BR/>15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line. <BR/>16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow. <BR/>17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail. <BR/>18) After a number of injections my jaw got number. <BR/>19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear. <BR/>20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests. <BR/>21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-52808044450966914342008-12-18T13:20:00.000-08:002008-12-18T13:20:00.000-08:00I would agree with you entirely, except that my hu...I would agree with you entirely, except that my husband, who is white and from New Zealand, gets this all the time. People claim not to be able to understand him even though he has lived here for twelve years and is very easy to understand. I often have to "translate". I'm sure people aren't as rude, since he is white, but they still seem to be just as ignorant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-15468226784725309552008-12-18T12:47:00.000-08:002008-12-18T12:47:00.000-08:00>by speaking not only English (which, thanks to...>by speaking not only English (which, thanks to its mongrel ancestry, is especially difficult to learn<BR/><BR/>You can't judge how difficult it is to learn a language if you only know your own. English isn't especially difficult to learn compared to other languages and I say this to you as somebody without the feeling for foreign languages and I have great difficulties learning foreign languages (Latin and Spanish were the other foreign languages I once knew).<BR/>You should read what Mark Twain had to say about learning the German language:-DAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-66374899326238837032008-12-18T11:11:00.000-08:002008-12-18T11:11:00.000-08:00I agree with this.Sometimes, however, I really do ...I agree with this.<BR/><BR/>Sometimes, however, I really do have trouble understanding people :( <BR/><BR/>I try to be patient and explain a different way. The other night I was ordering Chinese food over the phone, and the lady on the other end kept thinking I was saying "lo mein chicken" when I was saying "lemon chicken." I spelled it to her, and then said "the small yellow fruit that is sour." She still didn't get it, so I ordered orange chicken instead. It was just as good, though worse for me... :D<BR/><BR/>As far as tech support goes, I do get frustrated, though more at the company for outsourcing this job (one where you must understand and speak good English) to a foreign country. I am usually already frustrated with the problem I am having, and then when the support guy speaks quickly in a heavy accent I can't understand? Forget it, I'll wing it.Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07805426827554685510noreply@blogger.com