tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post157855840599686647..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: name foreign places after themselvesmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-3708339947325734502010-07-18T16:40:21.081-07:002010-07-18T16:40:21.081-07:00Did you mean the Dalai Lama?
In Nepal, Mt. Everes...Did you mean the Dalai Lama?<br /><br />In Nepal, Mt. Everest is known as Sagarmatha, and since the mountain is only safely climable from the Nepali side, renaming it Chomolungma probably wouldn't be taken too kindly.Swatinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-87991324237895666422010-03-25T03:49:08.768-07:002010-03-25T03:49:08.768-07:00I think that wednesdaywolf's point was that yo...I think that wednesdaywolf's point was that you seem to have an issue with the description of Asia as the 'East', whilst a the same time quite happily referring to the 'West' (ie, West of what?). Such contradictions appear to be common on this blog.<br /><br />In any case, it appears that you are yourself presenting a particularly paternalistic view in respect of the naming fo foreign places. As has been mentioned above, names are fluid and organic. It is not for Google, or anyone else to determine the name of a thing or place, but rather for people to determine their own name. If Tibetians want to call the mountain their own name, then so they should (and apparently do). If Westerners want to call it something else, then so they should (and do). Tibetians do not need Westerners to validate the name they have chosen.Clearnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-86342609722195423782008-12-07T07:17:00.000-08:002008-12-07T07:17:00.000-08:00I agree, Anonymous. It's like a white/Western mind...I agree, Anonymous. It's like a white/Western mindset only accepts "new" stuff when it's been authorized into recognition by the preeminent authority of its own white/Western system of validation. And often, the hegemonic and cultural specificity of that mindset and system still seem to go unnoticed by those within it. Here's a <A HREF="http://community.livejournal.com/debunkingwhite/765376.html" REL="nofollow">recent, further elaboration on the topic</A>.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-82256195322102894712008-12-07T02:17:00.000-08:002008-12-07T02:17:00.000-08:00I never understood why whenever white people found...I never understood why whenever white people found something, they make news about it like "Discovered"<BR/><BR/>If Columbus discovered America, then why are living there. Some group of Western discovered a deep cave. WTF. IAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-4833018614467093042008-11-17T01:15:00.000-08:002008-11-17T01:15:00.000-08:00Ex canadienne here. Wonder why the English in the...Ex canadienne here. Wonder why the English in the province of Quebec persevere to remain there, when in fact the francophones are indeed mloving in. The streets are being renamed...in french ..hooray..and if you have a last french name...your childfren may ONLY attend french schools...hoorahAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-76654349823353757462008-06-06T15:39:00.000-07:002008-06-06T15:39:00.000-07:00i like the work you are doing here.i like the work you are doing here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-73982998886440539402008-05-30T13:03:00.000-07:002008-05-30T13:03:00.000-07:00The paper I read (The Express, a free daily publis...The paper I read (<A HREF="http://www.readexpress.com" REL="nofollow">The Express</A>, a free daily published by the Washington Post) listed the anniversary yesterday but credited both Sir Hillary and <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenzing_Norgay" REL="nofollow">Tenzing Norgay</A>. Which I thought was indicative of people starting to recognize that we shouldn't only credit the white man on any given team.<BR/>I think part of the renaming is laziness. White people can't be bothered to learn how to pronounce it in a different language, so they name the gorgeous waterfall after their queen. And also, clearly, nothing ever existed until white people laid eyes on it.Evelynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08652137971137847562noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-27636323455032185142008-05-30T08:32:00.000-07:002008-05-30T08:32:00.000-07:00Incredible!For the most part, naming is organic. ...Incredible!<BR/><BR/>For the most part, naming is organic. What name gets used is subject to change and evolution. Just look at place names in the US, which reflects an odd mix of European and native names. Most people don't know (much less care) about the origin of the name of the place in which they inhabit. Cultural identity is not derived from something as petty as a name, and if it was. How many people in France would identify themselves with the Franks? How many people in England identify themselves with the Germanic tribe that gave rise to that name?<BR/><BR/>What you fail to recognize is that this is very common, that it happens on BOTH ends, and that it's really dependent on language. Yes, in English, many names are indeed Anglo-centric. Well, what did you expect? That doesn't mean that local languages then adopt the name given in English. Or that other languages adopt the name given in English. The English name for China is nothing like the Chinese name for China. Nor is the Chinese name for the United States anything like the English name for it. Should the Chinese be more culturally sensitive and change the Chinese name for the US to something that is more faithful to the name "United States of America"? English is, by its very definition, an Euro-centric language, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with English names bearing that bias, just as there is absolutely nothing wrong with other languages bearing their own cultural bias and not being faithful to European languages. C'est la vie.<BR/><BR/>The other thing that you fail to recognize is the organic nature of naming. What name sticks and what name gets used is subject to change and evolution, and this is especially true for English, where the acceptance of names, new words, foreign words, etc., all happen without with the ebb and flow of popular usage.<BR/><BR/>Finally, one thing that bothers me the most is a focus on the past with no regard for the future. Many cultures look back at their heyday wistfully but do nothing to recover their prominence (e.g., Middle Eastern cultures continually harping on their contributions to mathematics, etc. that had dried up about a millennia ago when they became more religiously insular), whereas some cultures (East Asian ones are an example) don't dwell on that and move forward. You think that the world is too Euro-centric? Fine. Why is it that way? Figure out what allowed it to achieve economic and military dominance and then move your culture forward by implementing the same reforms. There is nothing to be gained by being static.<BR/><BR/>(And no, I'm not white :P)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-60304390124069169402008-05-29T21:58:00.000-07:002008-05-29T21:58:00.000-07:00I was thinking about this when I wrote about Arab ...I was thinking about this when I wrote about Arab Americans being Asian Americans. What we think of today as the "Middle East" used to be called the "Near East", and what we think of today as "East Asia" used to be called the "Far East" (the latter which you mentioned).<BR/><BR/>Back in the day when people used the term "Near East", the people in the "Near East" were also called "Orientals". In <I>Orientalism</I>, Edward Said wrote about how the knowledge base of "Oriental Studies" was basically based on the idea that the "Orient" needed to be reinterpreted as from a European point of view to be understandable and considered "knowledge". The stereotypes we have today about Arabs can be traced back to very old scholarship, but there are also many stereotypes mentioned in <I>Orientalism</I> that are common to Asia and Asians as whole. For example, Asians as a whole are perceived to be mystical, irrational, and opulent, obeying barbaric laws.<BR/><BR/>The continent of Eurasia is also weird. It's one continent, but there is an arbitrary line dividing "Europe" from "Asia". What do East Asians (Chinese, Japanese, Koreans), South Asians (Indians, Pakistanis, Bengalis, Sri Lankans, etc.), West Asians (Arabs, Iranians, etc.), Southeast Asians (Thai, Vietnamese, Laotians, etc.), and other Asians have in common? They're not white.<BR/><BR/>Thus, the whole "East versus West" dichotomy is also Eurocentric, because it defines the East as the part of Eurasia where the white people did not live. China did not originally think of itself as having in common with its neighbouring civilizations some "Eastern" property, as everything non-Chinese was considered equally foreign. However, many white people think that the "East" and the "West" are in competition, as if people in Asia consider themselves "Asians" instead of a specific ethnicity or nationality. This belief that there is a "East versus West" competition is based on xenophobia, or at least the belief in a "East versus West" dichotomy is based on Eurocentricism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-64023249196038928312008-05-29T14:59:00.000-07:002008-05-29T14:59:00.000-07:00It's interesting to note as well that, especially ...It's interesting to note as well that, especially in Africa, there is a huge problem with names and boundaries. The countries we know as Uganda, Rwanda, the Congo, etc are not their real names. The rivers that run through them (such as the Congo river) are not known by their real names, rather, we know them by the names white people gave them. And of course, the European explorers would often stick labels onto landmarks in recognition of their patrons or various European royalty--showing incredible disrespect towards the natives and what names they used. <BR/>And also, boundaries have caused HUGE problems in the great continent of Africa, even long after the age of colonization has supposedly ended. The country of Uganda was never really a country with the boundary lines that are drawn the world maps that we all see. Africa has always been a place of tribes and villages rather than the most "modern" European states and countries. With the European imposed boundary lines, some African sects have been divided right in half because of this. Some other tribes have been forced to live under the name of one nation even when they have had centuries of hostility between them. This arbitrary ruling of who is what and which country ends where, coupled with typical European and American manipulation (such as favoring one tribe over another) has caused genocides and crimes against humanity in places such as the Congo, Darfur, Rwanda, and Uganda. <BR/>So, while this is a little bit off topic from simply naming places, it just goes to show how white people often overextend their authority and impositions on other people (especially with b.s. like the Manifest Destiny).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-32237735174236440032008-05-29T11:09:00.000-07:002008-05-29T11:09:00.000-07:00Wednesdaywolf, when you paraphrase and comment on ...Wednesdaywolf, when you paraphrase and comment on what you've paraphrased, you should paraphrase accurately. The post says "East of what?" not "West of what?" Big difference, I'd say. I discussed "East" and "West" in that paragraph by way of explaining the term "Oriental." <BR/><BR/>It looks like your perception of hilarity is a result of you're not being particularly thoughtful about what you're reading.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-13882016549084523542008-05-29T10:53:00.000-07:002008-05-29T10:53:00.000-07:00I think it's hilarious that you call out the phras...I think it's hilarious that you call out the phrase "Eastern" while talking about "Western Culture". To paraphrase: West of what exactly? (The largest landmass on the planet, that's what). <BR/>I get your point, and for sure Western culture dominates - for lots of historical reasons, mostly relating to colonialism and economics, but I think you're not being particurly thoughtful about what you're saying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-10165989907931554122008-05-29T09:41:00.000-07:002008-05-29T09:41:00.000-07:00I totally agree with you Macon regarding "name for...I totally agree with you Macon regarding "name foreign places after themselves" Let's examine the types of people who hike this mountain. Usually rich white men who in short have non-whites helping them to get up the mountain. <BR/><BR/>I remember last year going to Peru and I told my friends on how much I did not want to go to the Inca Trail (a none europeanized name). I refused to go there because, (and this is probably getting away from the point) but why isn't there a celebration of non-whites hiking up such places like Inca Trail or Mount Everest, oops, I forgot, they do that for a living.La Legione di Resistenzahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05818326093597590053noreply@blogger.com