tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post1453965558058213566..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: reap the benefits of affirmative action for whitesmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-6567309136854463882009-12-27T11:36:26.931-08:002009-12-27T11:36:26.931-08:00Riveting to say the least. You're right up th...Riveting to say the least. You're right up there with Tim Wise in your take on reality. Keep up the great work. I quite often speak with white men and women who have no concept of the "Original Affirmative Action" and how it benefited millions of white Americans.<br /><br />Excellent read.jazzguruhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01548729122297070680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-46794998558925798282009-12-06T18:49:17.751-08:002009-12-06T18:49:17.751-08:00Check this out for another review of the book [PDF...Check this out for another review of the book [PDF] <br /><br /><a href="http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showpdf.php?id=3154" rel="nofollow">http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showpdf.php?id=3154</a><br /><br />"She ends up advocating a return to yiddishkeit -- defined as a commitment to the Jewish people -- as a way for Jews of eastern European descent in the U.S. to opt out of whiteness and<br />reclaim the collective significance of Jewishness."<br /><br />Interesting twist. Jews became white, then some want to become jews again...Twisternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-74032136262207683652009-11-15T13:36:43.481-08:002009-11-15T13:36:43.481-08:00Cloudy, it's not that the laws are racist in a...Cloudy, it's not that the laws are racist <i>in and of themselves</i>. (They may or may not be). The point is that, in a world where the legal system is racist, trying to defeat domestic violence PURELY through the legal system <i>prior to any effort to reform that system</i> will continue to fail WOC.<br /><br />White feminists have a tendency to take for granted that the police will (a) come quickly to "their part of town" and (b) listen to them. In my observation, while neither of these things is true 100% of the time for WW or 0% of the time for WOC, it is far, <i>far</i> more likely for WW to be reached/helped by the cops in domestic violence situations.<br /><br />However, it is much easier to pass a law that says "spousehitters go directly to jail, do not pass go" than it is to address the poverty, self-hatred, religion, sexism, racial, mental illness and the myriad other factors that contribute to DV. However, addressing those underlying factors would mean that white feminists would have to confront their privilege and (gasp!) maybe even give some of it up.<br /><br />Did you go to the page to which I linked? It does a more thorough job of outlining the differences in approaches to DV.<br /><br />>> <i>"Let's stop blaming the people who fight for gender equality for the deeds of those who perpetuate it."</i><br /><br />If the gains of white women come at the expense of women of color, we haven't done <i>shit</i> for gender equality.Willownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-90685811657316186632009-11-15T10:54:45.848-08:002009-11-15T10:54:45.848-08:00Willow, all of these examples only prove my point ...Willow, all of these examples only prove my point that the problem lies with the police and courts, not the laws. If anything, the police in those cases acted in ways that are completely and totally contradictory to what the laws aim to accomplish. In fact, examples #2 and #3 have nothing to do with any domestic violence laws on the books and are really just pure racism. They in no way make the legislation against domestic violence racist or self-serving in nature. Holding these up as the examples of the failings of feminism is nothing more than dishonesty, bad logic, and derailment. Let's stop blaming the people who fight for gender equality for the deeds of those who perpetuate it.Cloudynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-63758458994781526252009-11-14T19:56:06.913-08:002009-11-14T19:56:06.913-08:00@ Cloudy
The legal system is notoriously racist, ...@ Cloudy<br /><br />The legal system is notoriously racist, so strategies for reducing domestic violence that work exclusively through the legal system are also racist. It's not just that WOC are <i>ignored</i>, it is that they are <i>actively persecuted</i>.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.incite-national.org/index.php?s=91" rel="nofollow">This web page</a> has a lot of really good examples and further info. The most relevant stuff starts about 2/3 of the way down the page, or you can do Edit>Find "Remedies." Here are three examples provided:<br /><br /><i> * An undocumented woman calls the police because of domestic violence. Under current mandatory arrest laws, the police must arrest someone on domestic violence calls. Because the police cannot find the batterer, they arrest her and have her deported (Tucson).<br /><br /> * An African American homeless woman calls the police because she has been the victim of group rape. The police arrest her for prostitution (Chicago).<br /><br /> * An African-America woman calls the police when her husband who is battering her accidentally sets fire to their apartment. She is arrested for the fire (New York).</i>Willownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-49138519308345099212009-11-14T14:16:39.926-08:002009-11-14T14:16:39.926-08:00@Willow
(sorry, I'd forgotten about this thre...@Willow<br /><br />(sorry, I'd forgotten about this thread)<br /><br />You said<br /><br />"Or, on a more humanitarian (well, white-itarian level, I suppose), take a look at the voting records of POC congresspeople, state or federal. Hate crimes legislation is often notoriously racist in practice, as are many (though not all) laws against domestic violence. A POC who votes in favor of them--because let's face it, does any progressive really want to be on the record as supporting domestic violence?--is thus, on some level, discriminating against people of her/his own race (and other non-white people) in favor of WP."<br /><br />and<br /><br />"The first example that comes to my mind is legislation regarding violence against women. The Feminist Movement (TM) has tended to push for measures that focus largely on the legal system--police, courts, social services. All three of which often have MAJOR problems on a racial level. Not to mention what this does in the case of undocumented immigrants."<br /><br />I was wondering if you could elaborate on this for me because I really hope I'm interpreting this wrong. It sounds like the argument is "Tougher laws and calls to higher action in the legal system cause more POC to pass through the legal system, which is historically and notoriously racist and biased. Therefore these laws hurt POC and mostly serve white women." That sounds like terrible logic to me. WOC, and also women of any color from lower socioeconomic classes, are far more likely than your average middle class white women to be victims of domestic abuse and also more likely to be largely ignored/not helped by the legal system.Cloudynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-86490960992116437722009-11-14T05:35:06.519-08:002009-11-14T05:35:06.519-08:00@ punch
What have I said ITT that leads you to co...@ punch<br /><br />What have I said ITT that leads you to conclude I'm a racist? <br /><br />I also think derailing is a pretty accurate term for what happens to a discussion when you randomly haul off and call someone a Nazi...which I believe is what Herneith did since, If I'm not mistaken, that's what Stormfront is -- a Neo-Nazi message board.xDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-86282328348514565512009-11-13T10:25:33.731-08:002009-11-13T10:25:33.731-08:00@XD,now that made me crack a smile - a racist usin...@XD,now that made me crack a smile - a racist using the language of anti-racists to claim being the wronged party. "Derailing" hee hee.punchnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-74636277255718378782009-11-13T05:50:20.850-08:002009-11-13T05:50:20.850-08:00@ Hernieth:
What are you on about. Did you cut a...@ Hernieth:<br /><br /><i> What are you on about. Did you cut and paste from some article on Stormfront? </i><br /><br />No, and I find that response extraordinarily offensive, dismissive and derailing.xDnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79019787520348030132009-11-12T18:58:07.002-08:002009-11-12T18:58:07.002-08:00"As far as I know, white people are the only ..."As far as I know, white people are the only people on the planet who discriminate against others in order to help themselves."<br /><br />I was being facetious by inverting this person's post. I am quite cognizant to the fact that discrimination is not germane to one group.Herneithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-12850826400503232272009-11-12T18:53:18.061-08:002009-11-12T18:53:18.061-08:00Bah, previous post is mine (Willow). Roomie stole...Bah, previous post is mine (Willow). Roomie stole my computer for a moment and I didn't realize she logged in to Blogger.Willownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-18612683148182002892009-11-12T17:56:40.678-08:002009-11-12T17:56:40.678-08:00Oh, also,
>> "If I had a violin, I...Oh, also, <br /><br />>> <i>"If I had a violin, I'd start playing it."</i><br /><br />ROFL! Thanks. :)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14010144045608601612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-38983587716888636092009-11-12T17:48:39.240-08:002009-11-12T17:48:39.240-08:00>> "As far as I know, white people are ...>> <i>"As far as I know, white people are the only people on the planet who discriminate against others in order to help themselves."</i><br /><br />Mm, not so much on this one. Granted, it's more *effective* when WP do it, because we have systemic power (in the U.S., but also in the world overall), but we're not alone. I talk a lot about racism within the Feminist Movement (TM), but let's not forget that the [black] civil rights movement had *strong* elements of sexism. There are a *ton* of WOC bloggers who talk about the ways in which they are specifically targeted by MOC today, and I would highly encouage you to check them out. (Requisite criticism of white feminists here: we do, by and large, a very crappy job of standing by WOC in these circumstances. It's another case of WOC saying to WW, "We helped you; why are you deserting us?").<br /><br />But still, even this (MOC>WOC discrimination) occurs in the context of a system governed by white supremacy, heteronormativity, and so forth.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=433" rel="nofollow">A good article</a> that explores how racism and sexism mix in various levels of oppression of black men, black women, and white women.Willownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-91348772746181646282009-11-12T17:37:09.413-08:002009-11-12T17:37:09.413-08:00@EPT
One highly specific and harshly demonstrati...@EPT <br /><br />One highly specific and harshly demonstrative example of the Feminist Movement (TM) putting the concerns of White Western women over those of WOC is an article in the May 1982 issue of <i>Ms.</i> magazine. <br /><br />In the article, <i>Ms.</i> praises the multinational corporation Control Data for “their commitment to employing and promoting women” and encouraged other firms to emulate their policies regarding women. The irony is that just 2 months prior, in March, close to 300 female factory workers in Seoul, Korea started a production slow down to petition for higher wages. Six union leaders (all women, with tenures of up to 13 years) were fired, imprisoned, and had their families threatened. <br /><br />Two months later, on July 16, the matter was abruptly and violently settled when a group of Control Data male supervisors and guards locked the female workers inside the factory and beat them. Many women were injured, 5 had to be hospitalized, 2 suffered miscarriages, and the female union president threatened with death by gasoline fire. Then to add insult to injury, Control Data's official statements regarding this violence was filled with the typical victim blaming that the Feminist Movement (TM) professes to deplore.<br /><br />Yet <i>Ms.</i> magazine never expressed any knowledge, much less consideration for this instance of flagrant psychological, legal, and physical violence against women of color, and thus became an ironic accomplice to global injustice against women. The information was out there. The May 1982 issue of <i>Multinational Monitor</i> featured an article about the Control Data pay inequities, strike, and subsequent firings of the female Korean employees. <i>MM</i> reported on the violence in July then followed up in September and as well as included it in their 1982 Annual Report. <br /><br />If the non-profit <i>MM</i> had access to this information while the Feminist magazine co-founded by Gloria Steinem did not, one can only assume that they either had no desire to seek it out or simply did not think to. Each option is troublesome, even the seemingly more innocuous one as it speaks to an unexamined view that White American women are the only women whose welfare matters, perhaps because of an unconscious belief that they are the only ones who are truly women. It is this viewpoint that leads to many WOC's discomfort with the mainstream Feminist Movement (TM) which Willow referred to. There are many more examples of similar episodes, this one is simply my "favorite" (if one can have a favorite example of racism within a supposedly progressive movement) because of <i>Ms.</i> magazine's status within the Feminist Movement (TM). <br /><br />I do hope this example helps. If you require clarification, references, or a follow up example, I will provide them to the best of my ability.Lirielnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-3918018538196629162009-11-12T16:08:12.056-08:002009-11-12T16:08:12.056-08:00"And societies change internally without mili..."And societies change internally without military intervention. What's your point with this comment, that society should be locked at the moment of conquest? Good luck with that."<br /><br />The writers point? Other societies have done the same thing so it's okay, no big deal!<br /><br />"Many white countries are being flooded with non-whites and institute the same anti-white policies of America."<br /><br />That must scare the living shit out of you.<br /><br />"Forms of anti-white discrimination.<br /><br />Affirmative Action<br /><br />Racial set asides<br /><br />Quotas<br /><br />"Hate Crime" laws that seem to only be used against whites<br /><br />Freedom of association restrictions"<br /><br />In other words, bring back Jim Crow, or better yet slavery so you can deal effectively with those darkies. Put them in their place.<br /> <br />"The point is that the argument that America or any other territory belongs to a group "because they were there first" is fallacious."<br /><br />How so? For those being subjugated, I'm sure it wasn't a 'fallacious' argument.<br /><br />"As far as I know white people are the only people on the planet who discriminate against themselves to help other races."<br /><br />As far as I know, white people are the only people on the planet who discriminate against others in order to help themselves.Herneithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-78110508746450028752009-11-12T16:01:37.056-08:002009-11-12T16:01:37.056-08:00"And if white people are so terrible and raci..."And if white people are so terrible and racist why don't you leave? Why do millions of non-whites go through a lot of trouble to live in white countries just to be oppressed?"<br /><br />Many of those 'complaining' have been on this continent for hundreds of years. Why should they go 'back'? This is akin to telling a black person to go back to Africa. I will give you this though, you include all racialized people going back to their respective countries of origin. At least in that respect you are inclusive.<br /><br />"Affirmative action is state sanctioned discrimination against white people. You'll never non-whites in power discriminating against themselves to help other races. In fact, you'll see them discriminate against others to help themselves."<br /><br />Affirmative action is state sanctioned discrimination against black people.. You'll never have whites in power discriminating against themselves to help other races. In fact, you'll see them discriminate against others to help themselves. Is more like.<br /><br />"Discrimination is happening to whites yesterday, today and tomorrow, not 60 years ago."<br /><br />If I had a violin, I'd start playing it.<br /><br />"Part of why affirmative action rankles its detractors is because of its baldy racially discriminatory intent. The GI Bill merely had a racially disparate impact. No, the analysis shouldn't end there, but I think sometimes people expect that relabeling disparate-impact policies as "affirmative action for [whites/males/etc]" ought to serve as some clever "gotcha!" rebuttal to affirmative action's critics; instead, this tactic disregards some of the main criticisms being advanced."<br /><br />What are you on about. Did you cut and paste from some article on Stormfront?Herneithnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-80566484325540917942009-11-12T15:46:36.673-08:002009-11-12T15:46:36.673-08:00Willow, thanks for that.
Fido, while what you say...Willow, thanks for that.<br /><br />Fido, while what you say is true in terms of justice and fairness, the way the world works, if you're able to take something and hold onto it, you own it, regardless of whether others think you are right to. In the term 'might makes right', 'right' means control, not legitimacy.<br /><br />I was merely responding in another way of how the world works: change is inevitable.EPTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-48804502506231912462009-11-12T10:55:09.987-08:002009-11-12T10:55:09.987-08:00There has been a common and persistent stereotype ...There has been a common and persistent stereotype that affirmative action programs only benefit minorities particularly African Americans, however a 1995 Department of Labor study shows that WHITE WOMEN have benefited the most from the institution of affirmative action programs. <br /><br />Through these programs have supported the development of research funding and health screenings for women, particularly for diseases that affect only women i.e. cervical cancer, breast cancer etc. They have funded domestic violence research and support programs. There are affirmative action programs to improve the participation of women in traditionally male dominated occupational fields. Affirmative actions programs even helped to ensure women to equal access to higher education and participation in collegiate athletics, with requirements for support and resources from their schools etc. <br /><br />Affirmative action programs are meant to combat racial, SES and gender inequities. However this is always framed as hard working white people supporting impoverished blacks i.e. "reverse discrimination". And I wonder why? Probably for the same reasons we don't talk about white poverty or that the majority of welfare recipients are white.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07709962334886627825noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-30157869151517105162009-11-12T09:37:25.310-08:002009-11-12T09:37:25.310-08:00>> ""Hate Crime" laws that se...>> <i>""Hate Crime" laws that seem to only be used against whites"</i><br /><br />So not true.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.blackandpink.org/revolt/a-compilation-of-critiques-on-hate-crimes-legislation/" rel="nofollow">Critiques of hate crimes legislation</a> (that aren't "you're infringing on my right of freedom of speech"-related crap)<br /><br />Notable excerpts:<br /><i>"Hate crime laws do not distinguish between oppressed groups and groups with social and institutional power.<br />This reality of the state makes it so that white people can accuse people of color of anti-white hate crimes, straight people accuse queers, and so on. Such a reality opens the door for marginalized people to be prosecuted for simply defending themselves against oppressive violence."<br /><br />"Hate crimes legislation is a liberal way of being 'tough on crime' while building the power of the police, prosecutors, and prison guards. Rather than address systems of violence like health care disparities, economic exploitation, housing crisis, or police brutality, these politicians use hate-crimes legislation as their stamp of approval on 'social issues.'"</i><br /><br />Shorter hate crime law: "Can I have a cookie?" :PWillownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-52334023612015563152009-11-12T09:01:31.057-08:002009-11-12T09:01:31.057-08:00Yes, goodness yes, a very informative post for me ...Yes, goodness yes, a very informative post for me too. And, I've got some relatives to forward it to. THIS is history that whiteness forgot. I bet kids still don't hear this stuff in their high school American history classes. Even tho that's "white history" too.AEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-78699784491813077582009-11-12T08:25:43.284-08:002009-11-12T08:25:43.284-08:00A very informative post for me. I knew about the G...A very informative post for me. I knew about the GI Bill (my dad's a veteran), but hadn't considered that at the time it was introduced that it overwhelming helped white American males, in part due to segregated universities and gender roles in the U.S. Thanks for this!American Black Chick in Europehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17612489402572134424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-78130622705324389652009-11-12T06:48:47.370-08:002009-11-12T06:48:47.370-08:00@EPT
The point is that the argument that America ...@EPT<br /><br />The point is that the argument that America or any other territory belongs to a group "because they were there first" is fallacious.Fidonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-22668334422363002112009-11-12T06:48:07.858-08:002009-11-12T06:48:07.858-08:00@kitchen sink
Many gruops of Native Americans wer...@kitchen sink<br /><br />Many gruops of Native Americans were constantly at war with each other.<br /><br />Forms of anti-white discrimination.<br /><br />Affirmative Action<br /><br />Racial set asides<br /><br />Quotas<br /><br />"Hate Crime" laws that seem to only be used against whites<br /><br />Freedom of association restrictionsscruffynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-1557758588520840632009-11-12T06:23:17.659-08:002009-11-12T06:23:17.659-08:00@Brash Tax
Many white countries are being flooded...@Brash Tax<br /><br />Many white countries are being flooded with non-whites and institute the same anti-white policies of America.soft cellnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-56667316992875073572009-11-12T03:28:13.113-08:002009-11-12T03:28:13.113-08:00Re: racism in the feminist movement, check out the...Re: racism in the feminist movement, check out the bell hooks' book "Ain't I A Woman?"RVCBardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06481089855894764409noreply@blogger.com