tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post9018266666065286825..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: fail to understand why non-white people feel like self-segregatingmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger58125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-22041947403242813522013-08-01T10:18:47.958-07:002013-08-01T10:18:47.958-07:00When you approach anyone for the first time, the f...When you approach anyone for the first time, the first thing to notice is usually sex and race.<br /><br />Race could make you feel uncomfortable just for not knowing what to expect or how to react before this person. But after a while, race becomes unimportant; color losses power and you start seeing the person just as a person.<br /><br />This makes me belief that segregation is the biggest ally to racism, misjudging and prototyping people. The least contact with people of other races, the more misconceptions you will have, and you will be most likely to adopt racist positions even unconsciously. <br /><br />If churches, workplaces and institutions would adopt diversity, probably it would be some confrontations and new issues a first. But, in the long run, all those misunderstanding will disappear.<br /><br />And churches followed by school and work places are the major gate-keepers. The are the real reason for a segregated society.Guillerminahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10860668464399451248noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-73775973905708626792012-12-03T16:14:18.490-08:002012-12-03T16:14:18.490-08:00I don't think that segregating yourself or sur...I don't think that segregating yourself or surrounding yourself around more people of color makes the situation any more comfortable. I guess it is assumed that when your around white people that you have do or say things in a certain way as to not be viewed as another stereotypical black person to them. Negative media stereotypes like the news reporting of crimes involving minorities always play into what many white people think of blacks. These media images are damaging and they don't always make it easy for white and non-whites to get along or see eye to eye on certain issues. That is why I don't like to read the news or TV because we are always portrayed in a bad light and it is hard for many white people to counteract these bad images of minorities.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11784268380025991314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-59176852052074785072011-07-16T22:08:09.756-07:002011-07-16T22:08:09.756-07:00Also,
for me I would like to add that it is tiri...Also, <br /><br />for me I would like to add that it is tiring at work to be expected to emulate negative media stereotypes out there where POC are concerned.<br /><br />I am not about to "pop a cap" in anyone's a**.<br /><br />It is absolutely an awkward position to be in these days as far as I am concerned.<br /><br />I wish the media would stop buying into these negative images as the norm for all POC.<br /><br />It makes us all look bad and adds to making it a harder struggle day to day to counteract those stereotypes.dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03944271113159294573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-91139782873403535162011-07-16T21:40:57.132-07:002011-07-16T21:40:57.132-07:00This is the best blog I have ever read :)
Classy, ...This is the best blog I have ever read :)<br />Classy, respectful, honest and mature. <br /><br />How refreshing :)<br /><br />Thank you for this. I needed to know I was not alone very much at this moment as the only person of colour in my office presently and really feeling the pinch bad. Thank you for all your comments. I related to almost every one. <br />Amen & God Bless each one of you :)dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03944271113159294573noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-22116217180741279582010-03-31T10:27:03.897-07:002010-03-31T10:27:03.897-07:00@Stephanie,
Did you discuss your experiences when...@Stephanie,<br /><br />Did you discuss your experiences when you returned to your community? In particular, did you discuss it in terms of race? I'm interested in whether an experience like yours would be as formative for most white Americans.clhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00227699349849828151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-66279168231288047882010-03-31T08:15:53.053-07:002010-03-31T08:15:53.053-07:00Why I self-segregate
-Because when having a discus...Why I self-segregate<br />-Because when having a discussion with my white female friend about a white guy who dated outside of his race, she said "maybe he wanted some flavor." <br /><br />-Because after my coworker asked me where I was from (nigeria), he proceeded to ask me "what we worship" there. Not what religions are most popular, not the specific values of my family, but "what we worship," as if he expected that dolls, the sun, or sticks would easily be plausible answers to that question.<br /><br />-Because, after losing a few pounds, I realized that I didn't like my hips not because they were fat, but because they didn't resemble the thin, white idealized image I'd had jammed down my throat during my teen years.<br /><br />-Because I like feeling like an individual, not a representative of my race.brownbettynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-60270087110128124362010-03-16T17:43:38.066-07:002010-03-16T17:43:38.066-07:00I self segregate from both blacks and whites...i a...I self segregate from both blacks and whites...i am a misanthrope with a great disdain for humanity.<br /><br />I get dirty looks from blacks (who don't mind being verbal in their discontent for you) and I get the evil looks from whites who like to talk crap about you behind your back.<br /><br />I get scared around everyone...even my own family (except for my mom)<br /><br />But there have been times when I prayed there would be a black person in any small classes I have even though I have seen what happens when the subject of race does come up even when there are other blacks in the class...its not pretty at all. but at least with another black in the room, i am not the only target.lifeexplorerdiscoveryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10784242218298485014noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-13374553289282681212010-03-15T20:40:33.784-07:002010-03-15T20:40:33.784-07:00I know you didn't solicit white responses, but...I know you didn't solicit white responses, but I hope they are welcome anyway. I'm a white woman and wanted to share that one of the best things anyone in my church growing up did for me was take my (white) youth group mission team to a local university (before we left for our "mission work") where we went to a one-day conference of churches. We were not prepared ahead of time to expect it to be all black churches, but they were, and most of them were also charismatic (which we weren't). We were seperated into gender groups for a particular workshop where things felt pretty foreign to me. I could not get myself to interact with the black people around me without a white friend by my side. Partially, I was a shy kid who liked to interact with people I already knew, but I also was aware that largely it was because they were black and I was already feeling judged--even though I am the one from the privileged race. We got yelled over a cultural misunderstanding and told we weren't holy enough and it was complete shock. When our whole group met back together outside of the building on this mostly white campus, you can bet I breathed a sigh of relief. I was 14 at the time and having grown up in a town where the only PoC I ever met were adopted children growing up in white families and one biracial girl growing up with her white grandparents, this was an extremely formative experience. I walked away thinking about what it means to be in a minority. I've had more formative experiences since then that have forced me to realize my white identity perhaps more than some of my peers that I grew up with, but that was by far the most useful in terms of building self-awareness.Stephaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00185051496429486888noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-92057106935576425992010-03-15T16:59:39.762-07:002010-03-15T16:59:39.762-07:00kerinova said "what could these white America...kerinova said "what could these white Americans possibly be hearing? "<br /><br />if you think white people are incapable of appreciating an art form just because it was invented by black people that leads me to believe that you really think that race is more than just a social construct. because if it is just a social construct, as we continue to break it down we are going to find out that we have a whole lot more in common than not. problem?<br /><br />according to you a white person who is genuinely inspired to be a part of something should say "oh wait i can't do that it's for black people, and they don't want me around anyway. i'll retreat back to my white world and do the stuff i'm supposed to do according to the script this racist society has written for me." <br /><br />no matter how many books or blogs we read white people are still going to have to actually hang out with POC if we are going to learn to stop relying on stereotypes. i know that sucks for POC a lot of the time because we are total dicks, and you wish we could just go to some meetings at the Y and figure it out for ourselves but, it's just not going to happen. (i for one will try to be less of a dick.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-14228212170623685422010-03-15T16:10:21.622-07:002010-03-15T16:10:21.622-07:00To me the reason why some white people complaint a...To me the reason why some white people complaint about PoC self-segregation is that they do not ever want to see a space which whites aren't dominate. <br /><br />I think although very few white ppl openly wish for a all-white space, almost every white person (save the KKK folks) wants to see a "diverse" space with a white majority and a sprinkle of token PoCs to make them feel good. However, any space where THEY become the minority and thus start feeling the sting of being a minority is utterly unacceptable. So they complaint about it so they can feel comfortable going to ANY space. <br /><br />That maybe a bit extreme but that's how I see it.Tivomehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13652513965736069435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-61944117866719227112010-03-15T15:19:28.492-07:002010-03-15T15:19:28.492-07:00In my case it gets even more complicated sometimes...In my case it gets even more complicated sometimes...<br /><br />I'm personally black woman who almost completely grew up around white folk....outside of my family my interactions with other blacks were relatively few, and all of my extended family lived several states away so I saw them only yearly. Many people assume that I'm mixed (in the sense of having one white parent and one black, which I'm not) because I'm relatively light skinned....and from what I gather from my "mixed" friends, I think my experience with the outside world was pretty similar. My parents were successful engineers who although intensely proud of their heritage, were forced to navigate the (very very white) world their profession put them in. Although they wanted me to be around other black kids, the best public schools were in the wealthy white neighborhoods...education was more important to them, so that's where I went to school, although my mom says that to this day she regrets not making sure I was around more black kids. I was taught to speak in a way acceptable to the white community as to give me the best chance of success.<br /><br />As such, I never knew what a safe space was, all I could gather was that to survive and make friends, I had to integrate. I was more successful with the white kids...the black kids mostly thought I acted "too white" (and called me the appropriate names)...and life was mostly peaceful if I was willing to put up with the unsavoury joke or comment occasionally.<br /><br />Since then, everything about me is a blend of worlds. I'm so used to being the only one that I tend to feel equally awkward amongst unfamiliar blacks as being around unfamiliar groups of whites. My experience with trying to explain this feeling of isolation has mostly earned me a s***storm from blacks, and pitying confused comments from the whites, usually involving some of the comments that this post was launched on. Even amongst my good white friends, it gets exhausting knowing that as much as they love you and want to understand, they never will.<br /><br />So honestly, to this day I don't know what a "safe space" regarding my race is like...I feel like I have to be on my guard either way. The only place I feel like I can just be and not have to fight/make nice/be a good example/be loud and proud/blend in is at home with my (white) husband, who has learned that although he'll never fully understand (although he does try hard to), and as much as he wants to do something, mostly all he can do is listen and let me pour out my frustration to someone who's not going to make me explain. And as we try to navigate what to do with our future children, it will be interesting to see what paths we decide to take.x3xnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-18243177171567194562010-03-14T19:52:15.182-07:002010-03-14T19:52:15.182-07:00I grew up Mexican American in Los Angeles, went to...I grew up Mexican American in Los Angeles, went to all black and Latino schools, in a black and Latino neighborhood. I never knew any white people besides teachers. So when I went to college (in Los Angeles), I was actually pretty excited for the diversity, to meet Asians and White people and all kinds of people. I wound up being good friends with people of all races, but I guess you would say I wasn’t really a part of POC group on campus that “self-segregated.” I was friends with them, definitely, but not a part of the clique. It seemed to me then (and the comments above seem to confirm), is that most of the POC who “self-segregated” in college were those who either grew up as the lone POC in an all-white suburb, or lived in a POC neighborhood but attended an elite private (white) school, again being the lone POC, and were quite frankly tired of it. So by the time college came around, they all felt the need to “self-segregate.”<br /><br />Me, well I didn’t fit into either of those circumstances. The white mainstream world was so new to me it was interesting to learn about these white people are their dramatically different worlds. I honestly had no idea people like that existed- people with that much privilege and wealth (doesn’t describe all white people, obviously, but most, at least in college). I had lived in a ghetto-bubble all my life and thought that stuff only existed in the movies.<br /><br />Fast forward to now. It’s been about 3 years since college; I’ve been out in the (White) working world. I moved across the country to a city in the Mid Atlantic without any Mexican Americans. Like, at all. Maybe a couple at the universities. It’s incredibly isolating. Yes, there is still more of a “safe space” with POC because they understand being a minority, but it’s isolating to not have any friends of Latino or Mexican descent. To not be able to speak your home language, Spanglish. I can only “recharge my batteries” twice a year or so when I visit Los Angeles. Part of it is homesickness, but a big piece of it is the racial aspect. Throw into this mix the fact that I have very fair skin and easily mistaken for white. Yes, I have a certain degree of ‘white privilege,” but this means that I am a POC in the midst of white people who don’t necessarily know a POC is in their midst. And it also means that it’s incredibly difficult to feel like I’m in a “safe space” even with POC because I don’t appear to be a POC. At least a black person will always see another black person in the room. Of course that is an oversimplification (African American vs. African?) but nevertheless, I feel like I would love some self-preservation, but there isn’t any way for me to get it, from both angles. I would have to introduce myself every time as, “Hi my name is Rebecca and I’m Mexican.” And that is exhausting (although I do sometimes do this, and feel the need to do this, but it still seems awkward). I have a wonderful boyfriend who is a POC and quite honestly we depend on each other a lot for understanding and security, but even then I don’t get the language aspect. And of course having now spent about 7 years in the White World, I understand why the POC in college felt the need to “self-segregate”! I just hadn’t reached my limit yet, I guess.plowing skynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-45006716241600639842010-03-14T16:25:19.961-07:002010-03-14T16:25:19.961-07:00I've always been confused by this, because hon...I've always been confused by this, because honestly i'm never sure if I am doing this or not. <br /><br />I'm a Jewish individual with mixed racial heritage, who grew up in the South. <br /><br />In Elementary school, I had a lot of black friends, but my closest friend was a white kid. <br /><br />I generally gravitated to the "brains", so it was usually the kids with the thick glasses that were good at math, and we were all kind of pushed together because no one else wanted us around, so I self-segregated in that degree, I am sure. <br /><br />In high school, I was mostly groupless, everyone knew me and I could move around pretty easily. I had a good amount of black friends I think, and I sat at the "black table" a lot, primarily because I was seeing a black girl at the time, and that's where she sat and I wanted to be close to her to talk. I never really felt out of place, it only becomes an issue when people start acting "weird". This wasn't just at the "black table", but everywhere, people always seemed a little different around me after they found out I was Jewish.<br /><br />I've gotten a few, "Oh.. so you're Jewish?"-kind of questions, and a few weird looks. A few people were nice and admitted that they didn't know what a Jew was exactly, and talked to me about it. <br /><br />Most people seem pretty friendly to me, I haven't ever really gotten any outwardly hostile reactions, but the "Jew gold!" and comments about my nose, even jokingly feel a little old after a while. I can take a joke, and it's almost impossible to offend me, but when you're just walking down the hall and a friend yells out "JEEEEEWWW!", it's... weird. <br /><br />The "Nerds" were probably the group I segregated with the most, simply because they were usually all polite, and we could sit in our quiet corner and talk about video games. Our group was pretty "diverse", the "nerd" group consisted of a few Hispanics, a few black kids, a polynesian guy, a few asians, a couple of other Jews, and a few white guys. That was the group I could let my hair down around, and not worry about anything, because we were all secondary segregated from our own groups, or many of us were parts of groups so small that we didn't really have a large enough group to segregate with on our own. (Can you really segregate yourself when there are like 2 other Jews in the entire school and you're the only Sephardi?) <br /><br />But having no other people "just like" me, I had to segregate based on interests rather than ethnic boundaries. <br /><br />I guess I see pretty much everyone as "outsiders" to me, since i've never met another Sephardi in my life (the community here is almost all Ashkenazi)and it's rare to meet another Jew, much less another from my specific group of Jews. <br /><br />Yet, I am "white-enough" as long as I stay out of the sun and keep my beard trimmed that as long as I don't mention Hannukah or the Sabbath, that I can "fit in" with white people, but it's still a matter of having to keep the whole J-thing on the downlow or I start getting expected to comment on the Israeli-Palestinian Situation and having to explain to people that the fight isn't over "Whose god is better", and it's a little more complex than that. <br /><br />So for me, I think my situation is kind of weird.RobotWhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17042087480800616905noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-19023176786259839422010-03-14T00:29:50.720-08:002010-03-14T00:29:50.720-08:00@James Earl
That's what is has always felt li...@James Earl<br /><br />That's what is has always felt like to me. Both when you want to just be away and when I just wanna be me.Juannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-11161195595416496052010-03-13T19:53:01.702-08:002010-03-13T19:53:01.702-08:00I think the wrong word is being used in this discu...I think the wrong word is being used in this discussion: For Black and other POC it's not about self-segregation but self-preservation.James Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09278418034695794717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-47165487069554940592010-03-12T12:02:21.235-08:002010-03-12T12:02:21.235-08:00I want to second what thesiencegirl said about pre...I want to second what thesiencegirl said about predominately POC places not necessarily being a safe space for me as a black American woman. Unfortunately the US racist media depictions of black Americans has spread around the world so I have had POC say racist things to me about black Americans.modest-goddesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02349577841986972240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-87890215671375839282010-03-12T12:02:21.236-08:002010-03-12T12:02:21.236-08:00The need to segregate for me as a Black person is ...The need to segregate for me as a Black person is the need for a "no need to explain my behavior, no need to explain everything i do, no one to tell me they know more about things i go through everyday more than i do although they have never experienced any of them" ZONE simply put a place where i can be fully black.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05700800216718550885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-57423223371642996282010-03-12T08:38:06.255-08:002010-03-12T08:38:06.255-08:00@macon
It's interesting the way we label scho...@macon<br /><br />It's interesting the way we label schools that way.<br /><br />PWI insinuates that it's "just that way" as if there isn't a historical significance to why PWIs are predominantly white.<br /><br />Meanwhile, HBCU has this suggestion that it's "historically" been this way, but doesn't have to be now. I'm sure this is meant to combat that annoying assertion that white people can't attend HBCUs.<br /><br />Very interesting the way we use words. Good point.A.Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10542810587986768786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-8359173410632857892010-03-12T08:33:51.756-08:002010-03-12T08:33:51.756-08:00Personally, I prefer to call higher ed PWI's &...Personally, I prefer to call higher ed PWI's "historically white colleges and universities." It helps to foreground their racially exclusionary pasts, and the de facto white supremacy that still pervades them. It's not a perfect term, though, as it could imply (unlike "PWI") that their pervasiveness whiteness is in the past.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-24968544120806770192010-03-12T08:31:43.541-08:002010-03-12T08:31:43.541-08:00Yes it does. Thanks for the insight.Yes it does. Thanks for the insight.class of 13https://www.blogger.com/profile/04342729403199808998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-52516798172783209052010-03-12T08:25:28.468-08:002010-03-12T08:25:28.468-08:00@fromthetropics
PWI = Predominantly White Institu...@fromthetropics<br /><br />PWI = Predominantly White Institution which refers to the majority of Universities in the US.<br /><br />This is as opposed to an HBCU which is a Historically Black College or UniversityA.Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10542810587986768786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-48042480939860486092010-03-12T08:12:21.362-08:002010-03-12T08:12:21.362-08:00I am enjoying reading the comments, but I need to ...I am enjoying reading the comments, but I need to ask a potentially stupid question. A few people used the acronym PWI. What it stands for? Because Google is telling me tall tales:<br />Personal Wellbeing Index<br />Perfect World International<br />Pro Wrestling Illustrated<br />Pregnant Without Intercoursefromthetropicsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-74885915560746202132010-03-12T07:53:24.270-08:002010-03-12T07:53:24.270-08:00@Tony, hang in there. If I were you I would re-ev...@Tony, hang in there. If I were you I would re-evaluate your " white friends" if they call you racist for searching out Profs and role-models who are of Asian descent. If they can't be sensitive to your feelings and are so dismissive of what are your genuine concerns and needs and won't listen to you they probably aren't really friends, or worthy of being considered friends.<br /><br /> TO me their attitude sounds like a case of the pot calling the kettle black (or as David Addison said, "the pot calling the kettle, pot"). Especially since there is this big meme going around about how for a white person being called racist is the worst thing they can be called (which I think is bullshit), then they need to show some sensitivity throwing that term around against minorities. Unless these same folks regularly call white folks on racism or recognize the endemic racism in our society (which I doubt) then they don't have a leg to stand on. Or you could employ the what is good for the goose is good for the gander philosophy and call them out on their seeming reflexive racism for calling you out for doing what they do every day. If it is so unimportant to them to taught by whites then why aren't they at a HBCU or HSI? B/c it never occured to them and as it has been pointed out here, white is "normal" and the "default" so why would they? And watch them carefully to see what they say if they ever have a course taught by a POC and jump on them immediately if they say anything racially tinged about that person. <br /><br />Hang in there my young brother.LisaMJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18063083954078964292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-26008588089657390152010-03-12T06:56:30.121-08:002010-03-12T06:56:30.121-08:00Sonic, no, not necessarily. I have encountered a ...Sonic, no, not necessarily. I have encountered a lot of prejudice and also cluelessness/ignorance from other POCs, particularly in my academic field, where certain people of color are not in the minority. In other words, even POC spaces can be unsafe spaces for black people.nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285430099883802519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-87527863777681711572010-03-12T06:49:41.352-08:002010-03-12T06:49:41.352-08:00The OP asked POC to respond about their experience...The OP asked POC to respond about their experiences, and did not solicit WP's stories. However, Karinova's comment about stepping leads me to tell a story. Before telling it, I want to say that I understand why POC want safe spaces. When I've been a gender or cultural minority, I had the same sense of just being able to relax with people more like myself. Further, although I do socialize individually with some POC and spend time in settings where POC are the majority when doing my work, I have been reflecting and challenging myself with the recognition that I do not go into group social settings dominated by POC. In my reflections I am torn between asking myself whether I'm respecting other people's need to create safe spaces or contributing to segregation by not bearing some of the burden of integration.<br /><br />Now the story. In the 1970s my graduate program had a significant contingent of Black students. I invited one Black woman I had friendly conversations with to my house for dinner. She initially accepted, then told me that she had changed her mind, that the other Black students wanted her to avoid social contact with Whites, and that she wanted to stand in solidarity with the other Black students. I understood, and our conversation was friendly. We remained on friendly terms through graduate school, and are still friendly when we see each other professionally although we never formed a personal relationship. (I did socialize individually with another Black woman student who complained about and refused to accept the self-segregation policy.) The Black students in our program had a special corner of the study area where they hung out, and I always respected their desire for separation. I felt that I had enough understanding of their situation to respect their boundaries. However, another White woman (Donna) did not respect their boundaries and insisted on hanging out in the "Black" area anyway. But here's where it gets complicated. Four years later, Donna had made close friends with a number of the Black students, while I remained on friendly but distant terms with them. I wondered then and I still wonder who was right, me for respecting the boundaries, or Donna for crossing them.olderwomanhttp://sociologicalconfessions.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.com