tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post8757353551655749297..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: mistake greeks for arabs, arabs for muslims, and muslims for terroristsmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger85125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-63116196315866414092010-01-25T01:16:08.244-08:002010-01-25T01:16:08.244-08:00THANK YOU! I'm so glad there are people who RE...THANK YOU! I'm so glad there are people who REALISE things like this. Being raised in London myself, there've been the odd (well, okay, frequent, but no one likes talking about racism over our lunch breaks) attack/prejudice on Muslims- but I really had no idea it was this bad in the US...makes me glad I'm in England.<br /><br />The one thing that seem to cause the thought Muslim=Terrorist in peoples minds is this:<br />People seem to think they know other peoples religions better than the people who actually practice it.<br />I mean, seriously, in how many, I ask, HOW MANY comment pages have we seen a Muslim say killing innocents and forcing people to become Muslim/pray/cover/etc. are both forbidden in Islam, only for some non-Muslim to post before/after that that Islam is a terrorist's religion or something similar.<br />And, of all the ridiculous things, a lot of people believe the claims of a non-Muslim who's probably never even seen a Quran in real life, over the claims of a Muslim who's taught and practices Islam. <br />It. Is. Bloody. Ridiculous.<br /><br />But, really, thankyou so much for this post. I'm glad non-Muslims are aware of this and can speak up about it!!<br /><br />Another thing I'd like for you to consider if you've got the time:<br />Muslims who've been attacked verbally or physically by islamophobes or otherwise do develope a phobia of sorts about expressing their religion. I mean, even I've felt terrified after telling my penpal- who I consider as one of my BEST FRIENDS, mind you- that I'm a Muslim, just instinctively tensing up and waiting for the slurs to come at me. It's taken me a good year or two and _lots_ of support and lectures from my non-Muslim friends to realize that stating my religious beliefs isn't something I should be afraid of- but that's how it always feels like, in every single country.<br />I'm not exaggerating about that either. Sadly enough, even so-called Islamic countries have their large share of hypocrites and violent islamophobes. One woman's husband got thrown in jail in Afghanistan because he had a _beard_. He also died in there, leaving a three kids, a baby and a widow. And, surprise surprise, this was only known by her friends and family.<br />Or, let's look at my home country- Turkey. It's thought of as 'Islamic', but women with head scarfs are thrown out of every University, Islamic marriages are forbidden and Imams who carry them out hunted down via police, young girls who cover their hair are thought of as foreigners and there's a good amount of Islamophobes in the population too. <br />And even Saudi Arabia!! Don't let all those women in burkas fool you. A family friend was on a plane from Saudi Arabia to Australia, and guess what she saw?<br />People come onto the plane, Muslim-looking men with beards and women wearing burkas. The plane takes off. Despite men sitting right next to or across them, the women then take _off_ their burkas, showing make-up caked faces, mini-skirts and revealing fabrics you can barely call shirts. Men are taking off their turbans or head wear, laughing and ordering wine, which is haram(forbidden) to drink. This continues. Then, the plane is about to land- and the drinks are put away, burkas put back on.<br />It's sad and disgusting, but my Mother says this often:<br />"It's not Islam that's wrong. It's the people who claim to practice it."Cheerful Takefronthttp://www.fictionpress.com/~oppositescanandwillattractnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-78795463768142074962010-01-07T19:59:19.104-08:002010-01-07T19:59:19.104-08:00Sounds bad, Stuck. I hope you can find a way out o...Sounds bad, Stuck. I hope you can find a way out of what sounds like a nasty little place in terms of race. I also hope, of course, that something turns down the fires of anti-Arab/Muslim xenophobia in the U.S. (which isn't even your own struggle!).macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79816766948381687522010-01-07T19:57:17.263-08:002010-01-07T19:57:17.263-08:00i am a Greek-American who moved to Murfreesboro , ...i am a Greek-American who moved to Murfreesboro , TN.<br /><br />from Chicago, and basically have to deal with mispreceptions and bogus accusations that i am an arab, or look like a terrorist or whatever. At a company party, a Southern man humiliated me by saying, that i'm not from the North, but from Guantanamo Bay, in front of everyone. I've been called every racist slur geared towards arabs in the book in my time here, and im not even an arab or whatever. Ignorance is bliss, but it's impossible to explain to people that i am only a Greek-American. It's effected my life in every aspect. I came to TN for work out of college in troubled economic times 2 years ago, and i knew that TN would not be as welcoming, but now i have proof that the sick judgement exists. Everywhere i go in town, people just stare me down. It's a horrible feeling, and i basically can't leave the house sometimes or go out as often, in fear for my life. All because of a stupid preception. I even was thinking to change my greek name entirely to a more English sounding one.<br /><br />none the less, in the more conservative areas of America, its best to just stay in the big cities. Much safer.Stuck in Tennesseenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-72056982049858604392009-12-07T16:45:43.526-08:002009-12-07T16:45:43.526-08:00can I also add.. mistake any brown person for bein...can I also add.. mistake any brown person for being either hindu or moslem. Because thats all we can be. Either Hindu or Moslem and nothing else. And that they are shocked when they find out Im neither.<br />*rolls eyes*Velcrow Rippernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-30581416770166733782009-12-03T15:35:38.731-08:002009-12-03T15:35:38.731-08:00every think that you could be overly sensitive? or...every think that you could be overly sensitive? or maybe you just are subconsciously racist yourself therfor everything that someone other then "poc" say has an underlying condescending tone?.. fact is everyone is racist we all stick together its a trible thing , human nature, men hang out with men talk smack about women, vice versa , i have herd many black people say if they try and... i will pull the race card and get them all in trouble.. stop complaining to hell wiht all the political correctness, who cares anything can be veiwed a million different ways. oh and 1 more thing as long as you label yourself a person of color then your going to be labeled , either your an american or not , African american is bullshit unless you were born in africa then gained citizenship status and live here , either you an american or your not making a sub class only breeds such thinking and creation of cliqs--- im an american native american actualy , blacks stop complaining you were slaves they killed us off and we got a dry ass desert. i think things should be a little harder for blacks they are getting there way as long as they place a race cardUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06113310195997739691noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-4464764196185448832009-11-25T11:29:27.916-08:002009-11-25T11:29:27.916-08:00Zakariya - I didn't mean to imply there are Zo...Zakariya - I didn't mean to imply there are Zoroastrian Arabs - I was just saying they get lumped in with the "Middle Eastern" label (and, yes, the Parsis! Freddie Mercury was a Parsi!)<br /><br />Honeybrown - I know the origins of "African-American" but the term has evolved and is now used discriminately; it does NOT make sense that only the descendant of a slave can be labeled "African-American" and is in fact exclusionary to later willful immigrants from the African continent (all of it).Jillianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01792137126898623243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-39355101869600985002009-11-24T12:11:48.654-08:002009-11-24T12:11:48.654-08:00I think many people misunderstand the term, Africa...I think many people misunderstand the term, African-American. It was a political statement referring to those American-born descendants of African slaves. Thus, unless you are/were a member of said group, no, you wouldn't qualify. <br /><br />Therefore, if you are Caribbean or otherwise, it would make sense that you wouldn't be labeled as such.honeybrown1976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-87973129725749998042009-11-24T10:41:56.081-08:002009-11-24T10:41:56.081-08:00Generalizations are widely employed when the topic...Generalizations are widely employed when the topic of race, ethnicity and religion are brought to light. Not only do broad statements allow for some cognitive dissonance from our own internal prejudices, but by distancing ourselves from truths, such as the fact that Muslims come in all colors and ethnicities, allows us to only fear or express unease about a specific group of individuals. Generalizations, it seems, have become a widely used defense mechanism.smculture, ethnicity, mentalhealthnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-73024742165193019022009-11-23T04:39:46.503-08:002009-11-23T04:39:46.503-08:00Also - sorry to double post but...
I doubt you...Also - sorry to double post but...<br /><br />I doubt you'll find many Zoroastrian Arabs. Zoroastrianism is an ancient Persian religion and no longer accepts converts. You have to be born into it... meaning you would be ethnically Persian though not necessarily Iranian. There is actually a sizable Zoroastrian population out in Bombaby who are called Parsees (ie Persians).<br /><br />That said... historically certain Arab tribes allied with the Sassanid Persians were known to have been influenced by Zoroastrianism in as much as that it was the Persian state religion. Others like the Ghassanids and Banu Kinda were Christians due to Byzantine and Syrian influences.Zakariya Ali Sherhttp://counterculture-jihad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-28417105915967274542009-11-23T04:35:43.848-08:002009-11-23T04:35:43.848-08:00I have to say, everything in this article is true....I have to say, everything in this article is true. It would almost be funny, were it not for the fact that this sort of discrimination and prejudice is so wide spread.<br /><br />Yes, many Americans cannot tell the difference between "Arab" and "Muslim."<br /><br />Yes, pricks like Robert Spencer, Michelle Mallkin and Mark Steyn have made a fortune shoving racism and bigotry down the publics throat.<br /><br />And yes, most of these trained Islamophobes will claim its not racism "because Islam isn't a race."<br /><br />This guy... assaulting a Greek Priest because he thought he was Muslim? That's dangerous. How can anyone like that be allowed to serve in the military in the first place? According to what I've read he also has quite the record for violence.<br /><br />I fear he will get off with a slap on the wrist for this and that's bad. What will happen when he sees a women wearing the hijab in public? Will he assault her too? This guy deserves to be put behind bars for a looong time.<br /><br />Anyone remember Sahar Al-Muwsawi? You should. She was ASSAULTED by anti-Muslim bigots after the Oklahoma City Bombing and miscarried. The pro-lifers in the right wing crowd won't mention that. And it turned out a white Christian did the attack. But you'll never here noted racist Steve Emerson admit to that. Her unborn child was MURDERED by trailer trash bigots... disgusting. I can only hope there is a special place in hell for them.<br /><br />As for the North Africans being "white"? I've experienced that too. I'm (part) North African and my aunt was actually born in Libya (IN THE MIDDLE OF AFRICA!) but was told she didn't count as African-American.<br /><br />The fact is the way Americans record race is kind of silly. It assumes that all people are only one race and places more emphasis on speaking Spanish (whether someone is "white non-hispanic" or "black non-hispanic"). Yet Arabs, Persians, South Asians and others are marginalized or ignored. Some might argue intentionally. And all Asians and Pacific Islanders are lumped together? Yet Koreans do not look like Samoans, Bangladeshis, Filipinos or Kazakhs! For that matter, where do Australian Aborigines fit onto the chart? Or Gypsies?Zakariya Ali Sherhttp://counterculture-jihad.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-11089884512246332882009-11-22T06:00:29.307-08:002009-11-22T06:00:29.307-08:00THIS POST HAS BEEN REBLOGGED ON Muslimness.com = h...THIS POST HAS BEEN REBLOGGED ON Muslimness.com = http://bit.ly/4VZbmP<br />AND MUXLIM.COM<br />=http://blogs.muxlim.com//Muslimness/stuff-white-people-do-mistake-greeks-for-arabs-arabs-for-muslims/<br /><br />Thank you Macon!Muslimnesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13870310126945300840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-8860503666592512172009-11-21T15:24:11.089-08:002009-11-21T15:24:11.089-08:00Britain DOES have similar incidents. Google Jean C...Britain DOES have similar incidents. Google Jean Charles de Menendez. A Brazilian shot because he looked Muslim=terrorist. No one was held accountable.undercovernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-60556736888614196332009-11-21T14:47:52.777-08:002009-11-21T14:47:52.777-08:00mthgk - In terms of health, I absolutely agree wit...mthgk - In terms of health, I absolutely agree with you - ethnicity should figure into health care, because of things such as sickle cell anemia, however "race" is totally abstract and in health scenarios, simply doesn't apply. Unfortunately, most African-Americans have little access to records of their ethnicity - I know that's not why "Black" came about, but in some ways (e.g., health) that's why it continues to be useful.<br /><br />I also agree that race categories make sense in terms of things like the census because they do help communities be represented. And as unreal as race is, the ramifications of its existence are obviously very real and in some ways, very important.Jillianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01792137126898623243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-75124299729871724572009-11-21T10:22:51.189-08:002009-11-21T10:22:51.189-08:00Also, I am in no way advocating that we "igno...Also, I am in no way advocating that we "ignore terms". I advocate dissecting these terms every time people use them. I advocate excluding racist categories from social analysis in the sense of using them to define population demographics for the purpose of a census. <br /><br />Can we use statistics to demonstrate the impact of racism on certain people? <br /><br />Perhaps, but this would have to be done VERY carefully so that the study doesn't inadvertently imply some scientific basis for race. It would have to be couched in more qualitative terms such as how people in a particular society perceive race.<br /><br />As you might see, such studies would be messy. At least they would be more rigorous and not implicitly uphold racist notions that are not scientifically or mathematically sound.mthgkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10085913585539040947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-67771392005657026662009-11-21T09:54:21.896-08:002009-11-21T09:54:21.896-08:00Cloudy,
These results are absolutely not useful t...Cloudy,<br /><br />These results are absolutely not useful to government programs. Correlation does not imply causation!!!!!!!!!!<br /><br />Just because sickle cell anemia happens to be an illness attributed to people nebulously labeled "Black" doesn't mean race is a good way to approach genetically based treatment programs. There is no strict genetic definition of race. <br /><br />Why do people from Africa have sickle cell anemia? Because it helps protect them against malaria. Does that have to do with them being "Black" or having ancestors from the geographical region of Africa? The Afrikaners deemed people from India "Black" in their racist schema. Do Indian's have sickle cell anemia????<br /><br />Racism exists, and we cannot ignore it. However, using racist terminology, without qualifying how empty it is, indirectly supports racist thinking. <br /><br />We need to talk about racism. I just don't think we should give credence to racist jargon and concepts by incorporating them into debate and analysis as though they are some how meaningful ways to categorize human populations. <br /><br />The racist paradigm is an arbitrary social construct, not based in science, and must be addressed as such. Associating percentages with racial categories indirectly supports a racist paradigm by linking them with math and science. <br /><br />This is a big problem.mthgkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10085913585539040947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-83994087826648917212009-11-21T09:34:02.805-08:002009-11-21T09:34:02.805-08:00Thanks for the clear explanations, Whatsername and...Thanks for the clear explanations, Whatsername and Cloudy. It is confusing to think of race and ethnicity when dealing with societal categories. While I've made it simply as possible for myself, I can't imagine what others go through.<br /><br />(I'm not new to the site, btw. I don't lurk; but sometimes when so much of the same sentiment has been said, I don't want to sound like a broken record.)honeybrown1976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-28646406300971543882009-11-21T09:33:14.042-08:002009-11-21T09:33:14.042-08:00You know mthgk, the racial categories are technica...You know mthgk, the racial categories are technically imaginary, as they're ill-defined and far too broad, but that doesn't stop racism, does it? Just ignoring the terms is not going to change the fact that people will discriminate against those who are different from them. Educating eachother about our differences, how our differences makes us each unique, and how we are all equal, is what helps. <br /><br />Also, race is self-reported. No one is forcing anyone into a specific category (at least on the census). If you're 1/8 black, you don't have to check black/other. If you're half-white, you don't have to check white/other. You check what you see yourself as. People are not numbers and static objects, so you will never get a "rigidly defined" population sample. That doesn't mean these results are not useful to social scientists and government programs. Just because race technically doesn't exist, that doesn't mean that there's no real problem when those who identify as non-white consistantly take home less money than their white peers. Sickle-cell anemia doesn't care that there's no such thing as black. The white guy not hiring POC for reasons like their names being too non-western doesn't care that race isn't real.Cloudynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-6513204439448558082009-11-21T06:55:39.165-08:002009-11-21T06:55:39.165-08:00Thanks for this post, Jillian.
Leila and Cloudy,
...Thanks for this post, Jillian.<br /><br />Leila and Cloudy,<br /><br />The entire problem with racial designations is that they are fabricated upon outdated, discriminatory norms completely lacking scientific basis. People quote statistics about racial demographics. This is completely bogus mathematically and an abuse of statistics.<br /><br />One of three fundamental objects in statistics is the sample space, and this is described using set theory. Sets are rigorously defined in terms of what is and what is not part of the set. <br /><br />THERE ARE NO WELL DEFINED RACIAL SETS!!!! STATISTICS SHOULDN'T BE USED IN THIS CONTEXT AT ALL!!!<br /><br />Associating a number, such as a percentage, with racial categories implies they exist and are meaningful. These numbers guide social policy and are used at nauseum in debates, yet they are TOTALLY MEANINGLESS!!!<br /><br />I'm sorry; as a mathematician, I get very frustrated with the how statistics is constantly abused in the realm of the social sciences. <br /><br />Here is a good quote from an Irish mathematician demonstrating this:<br /><br />"The average person has one testicle and one breast."<br /><br />If you don't define your sample space well, the machinery of statistics can be used to prove ANYTHING.<br /><br />I really wish people would stop lending reality to racial categories by discussing them as though they are quantifiable and scientifically-based. The census should be looking at subsets of our population that are quantifiable, such as socio-economic classes. <br /><br />Thinking in terms of race = not thinking but emotingmthgkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10085913585539040947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-37934065441044087002009-11-20T18:35:32.395-08:002009-11-20T18:35:32.395-08:00honeybrown1976, let me put it another way for you....honeybrown1976, let me put it another way for you. Say you have a black man from Cuba. He's black and latino, so he'd want to check both because just checking either latino or black would not really represent who he is and how society views him. There are lots of white latinos, "latino" is not a race unto itself. <br /><br />By the way, Native American is actually the proper designation for those latinos with mezoamerican ancestry, but without the option to choose "hispanic" it's not a good fit at all, so many would check "other".<br /><br />I hope this helps clear things up, I know the race/ethnicity question is a confusing mess.Cloudynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-42558732383239647072009-11-20T15:57:09.951-08:002009-11-20T15:57:09.951-08:00OK, I'll apologize for the snark. Your questi...OK, I'll apologize for the snark. Your question sounded like a troll's question to me, I see instead that you truly just don't understand. So, I'm sorry for the attitude.<br /><br />Let me break it down for you; when people in this country see you, they see "a Black person". When people in this country see me, like Elsariel, they see "a white person".<br /><br />Just as you can't ignore the way you are received by others, I can't ignore it either. I am treated as white by others. And so, I have grown up with the privilege brought along with it. And, I personally identify as white, too. I identify with my Celtic mutt (English, Scottish, Irish) roots just as much as my Mexican roots.<br /><br />To just identify as Chicana, all by itself, and to only check "Hispanic" on the form would not represent me as I am anymore than checking "White (Not Hispanic)" does. It would simply be inaccurate, and it feels, for lack of a better word, icky.whatsernamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15731411057968563416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-74217931362317381762009-11-20T15:13:47.461-08:002009-11-20T15:13:47.461-08:00Whatsername, no need for the snarkiness. It's ...Whatsername, no need for the snarkiness. It's a valid question. I'm not Hispanic/Latino; so, I'm trying to understand the dynamic.<br /><br />I am black and white; yet, I check black/African-American, personally and politically. Although I'm both, I don't identify with white since I don't receive any known "honorary white" status nor do I seek it.honeybrown1976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79660308005793131842009-11-20T12:04:20.161-08:002009-11-20T12:04:20.161-08:00honeybrown - "why check both"?
Really?
...honeybrown - "why check both"?<br /><br />Really?<br /><br />Why would I check both when the option presented is "white (not hispanic)"? And then "Hispanic" is another option?<br /><br />Because I'm, both...?whatsernamehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15731411057968563416noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-72439112147252360902009-11-20T10:09:03.140-08:002009-11-20T10:09:03.140-08:00You know, I check white too because even though I&...You know, I check white too because even though I'm 1/4 Korean, I look white and get treated like I'm white, for the most part. I just don't have the same experience as my full-Korean friends and family. I embrace my Irish-Jewish-Korean heritage, but it just doesn't feel right ticking "other". If they let you check as many as need be, I might, but I feel like I'm getting too technical.Cloudynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-38168358592470860012009-11-20T09:31:16.983-08:002009-11-20T09:31:16.983-08:00Whatsername, actually it does state "White (n...Whatsername, actually it does state "White (non-Hispanic descent)" on most governmental forms, inside and outside of California. So, I don't understand where you've come to that conclusion. I was referring to what the forms state. <br /><br />Also, I know that Hispanic/Latino is an ethnicity, not a race. Thus, why do a double check? If it's an ethnicity encompassing various races, why check more than one?honeybrown1976noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-73624745857732455112009-11-20T09:11:09.974-08:002009-11-20T09:11:09.974-08:00Nice little Newsweek bit to add to the discussion ...Nice little Newsweek bit to add to the discussion on essentializing Muslims: http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/guestvoices/2009/11/what_the_islamists_and_islamaphobes_dont_want_you_to_know.htmlJillianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01792137126898623243noreply@blogger.com