tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post7408482616494725075..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: get inside the heads of non-white peoplemacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-89966836214238306252009-12-30T21:38:38.888-08:002009-12-30T21:38:38.888-08:00simply put this is envy................. full on.
...simply put this is envy................. full on.<br /><br />white envy. envy is wrong and evil.Air Dalenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-66418712659494489542009-12-04T05:28:34.921-08:002009-12-04T05:28:34.921-08:00Obviously white people are in-essence the superior...Obviously white people are in-essence the superior race so it makes sense to want to strive to achieve it. As a black male I know that my life would be substantially easier in many regards.Kimnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-39700779850224513772009-11-26T10:45:46.596-08:002009-11-26T10:45:46.596-08:00>Concepts of beauty are so intertwined with soc...>Concepts of beauty are so intertwined with social power dynamics. I think if people were more conscious of this, beauty myths would loose some of their power.<br /><br />Yeah. For example, I've always wondered what the deal was with Mona Lisa. I've never understood what's supposed to be so beautiful about her. So, when I think of how beauty is relative & changes with time, I'll remember Mona Lisa. I doubt she'd pass as 'hot' nowadays, but obviously someone back then thought she was hot enough to paint.fromthetropicsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-52358559432304824402009-11-26T08:37:15.758-08:002009-11-26T08:37:15.758-08:00This topic has always been a rather inflammatory o...This topic has always been a rather inflammatory one for me personally. I grew-up with a Chinese Father who had profound problems with internal racism. He didn't teach any of his children about his culture or background, not only b/c he wanted us to be 100% Americans, but also b/c he had a deep seeded belief that cultures around the world, including his, were inferior to European culture. <br /><br />My Mom looks exactly what many people around the world consider a "real American girl" - blonde, blue eyes and very pale. So, I grew-up with messages from within my family and from American culture at large via television and other media that Asian features and non-"White" features are less desirable.<br /><br />However, the particular part of the US I am from and where I currently live has a very healthy counter-culture. So, in my immediate environment, there are many billboards featuring women with non-"White" features, and non-"White" girls and women are frequently acknowledged as beautiful. In fact, I've noticed an upsurge in Native American women getting attention lately. <br /><br />This may indeed be a function of resource redistribution due to casinos and the like. Native Americans are increasingly entering the middle class in this area. <br /><br />Regarding speculation on how impending Chinese economic power will change beauty norms, I have already see this happening for a while. One of the most blatant manifestations of this occurred while I was in East Germany a couple of years ago. I was very surprised to see billboards and television commercials including and sometimes featuring Chinese models/actors. I thought this was very odd given that there were basically no Chinese living in this relatively small city.<br /><br />Concepts of beauty are so intertwined with social power dynamics. I think if people were more conscious of this, beauty myths would loose some of their power.mthgkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10085913585539040947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79452218634670690882009-11-24T14:04:31.596-08:002009-11-24T14:04:31.596-08:00I guess the euro-centric standard of beauty have p...I guess the euro-centric standard of beauty have permeated the entire world so much that people are not comfortable in their own skin. I'm not saying that each society also doesn't have their own beauty standard but I won't be surprised if Sosa starts getting nose reductions either.Katnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-83154103310485096942009-11-24T13:35:27.814-08:002009-11-24T13:35:27.814-08:00Micheal jackson had a whole host of issues beyond ...Micheal jackson had a whole host of issues beyond skin color, such as child abuse and exploitation over the course of his life.<br /><br />The man was psychologically unbalanced, its not just a matter of hating being black. So don't just black it on him being black.plus racenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-28543334946730224112009-11-24T00:35:45.863-08:002009-11-24T00:35:45.863-08:00It's so funny; even when my self-esteem was at...It's so funny; even when my self-esteem was at its teenage-years lowest, I never wished for lighter skin. (I did long for "flowing" hair, though.) In fact, I distinctly remember being thunderstruck one day (around age 11 or 12 or so) at how <i>pretty</i> brown skin was, and how lucky I was to have it, and maybe even <i>pitying</i> my white friends a little bit. They just seemed so... well, blotchy. (Shades of Randy.) <br /><br />To this day, the thing I think makes for beautiful skin is evenness of tone. I don't care what the tone is. (Which means that to me, the Asian woman in the video has the most gorgeous skin <i>imaginable.</i> *wistful sigh*)<br /><br />The funny part is that when I get a cut, it heals light. So I'm getting blotchier as I age. Curses! When I realized this (late teens), I briefly considered using "fade cream" (Nadinola: it's Nature's best!), because what they usually stress/promise is <i>even</i> skin (not light skin). That's the "reason" many users give: "I just want to even it out." But I knew what was up. And I specifically wanted my lighter areas darkened, not my everything made lighter.<br /><br />Now that I'm older, I'm fine with it; that's just how it is. Though I have to admit that when I learned the other day that "Latisse" (which I think is ridiculous) <i>permanently darkens skin</i>, I thought, "Hey, I could use that! Why don't they market <i>that</i> aspect of it?!" Then I caught myself, and burst out laughing. As if!karinovanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-59485790592430944472009-11-23T16:34:53.211-08:002009-11-23T16:34:53.211-08:00Wow that video is awful.
I have less sympathy for...Wow that video is awful.<br /><br />I have less sympathy for the two models (Jet and the Indian man) because they basically make their living selling their physical features, but the mother who gets told she's too ugly for her lighter-skinned husband just made my heart break.Elisabethhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05939100173998555327noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-42812002382655530152009-11-23T16:12:12.962-08:002009-11-23T16:12:12.962-08:00AE,
My statements aren't based on derailment,...AE,<br /><br />My statements aren't based on derailment, the motivations behind them are the same as the motivation that brings me to reading this blog; it presents another side of an issue that is often ignored by others.<br /><br />Now, while as an Asian man I love to blame white people for as many things as I can, as often as I can. But, I also have to admit when they aren't completely at fault for certain things; for to understand a problem one must see the whole picture else only further problems will arise.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06290414173814020097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-71911506395559122042009-11-23T11:47:02.384-08:002009-11-23T11:47:02.384-08:00I think it's the images we see growing up that...I think it's the images we see growing up that we point to and think are the ideal and then decide to copy. Even in 2009 an african american girl is hard pressed to find many black women with dark brown skin and kinky hair on television or in the movies. So it doesn't matter how much we are told by our mothers we are beautiful the images that are being inforced are those of white people or black people who look white.Cathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04429112740298181455noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-803258701824090302009-11-23T06:57:32.196-08:002009-11-23T06:57:32.196-08:00GailS,
Same difference.
Six of one, half a doze...GailS, <br /><br />Same difference.<br /><br />Six of one, half a dozen of the other.<br /><br />White supremacy is on top now, but yeah, it could be dominance of another group instead, and has been before.<br /><br />e,<br /><br />What you wrote is obvious. Of COURSE white skin has been favored in other contexts for other reasons.<br /><br />So, you're sure white supremacy is a factor, like, in some way or other, in some cases or other, but that's not what interests you? So like, why are you even here then, on a blog about <i>stuff white people do</i>? (I smell derailment.)AEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-77020935977019377162009-11-23T06:38:20.168-08:002009-11-23T06:38:20.168-08:00People like Sammy, Micheal and the British woman i...People like Sammy, Micheal and the British woman in the video clip are not changing because they want to be white, instead they're changing because they want the respect and presumption of innocence that white people receive. (Needless to say, it's an unearned respect and incorrect pressumpiton!) <br /><br />I think this is an important distinction because it shows that these types of people would change accordingly if the current trend favored Arabs, Inuits, or East Africans. I think they're immature weaklings who don't deserve the amount of thought I'm using to post my thoughts.GailSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-82221417983029341082009-11-23T05:49:14.680-08:002009-11-23T05:49:14.680-08:00Omg the daughter from Bangladesh made me want to t...Omg the daughter from Bangladesh made me want to tear up.sparrownoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-81441997484213787432009-11-23T04:49:03.055-08:002009-11-23T04:49:03.055-08:00I just want to bring up one point when it comes to...I just want to bring up one point when it comes to skin whitening/paleness. While I'm sure certain people are experiencing some sort of racial motivation behind they're skin regimen, in some cultures lighter pigment skin has been the ideal for beauty since WAY before they met white people. Hell, the Chinese preference for lighter skin has existed for longer than any civilization in Europe has. In fact, the main Chinese creation myth states that a goddess formed man from the golden silt from a riverbed at first; but as the silt ran out she had to resort to using regular mud for her later creations. Those that were made of the silt became the aristocracy while the mud people became the commoners. So, even if China were to literally take over the world tomorrow, a certain subset of Chinese women would still highly value pale skin for all eternity.<br />Its also common in many cultures to at some point in their development to value lighter skin more, as a way to differentiate between low born laborers and aristocrats. Such views tend to carry over into the modern day in some form or another. Though cultures that have been conquered by white people more than likely had these values pushed upon them rather than developed them on their own. <br />So, while if Sammy and Mike whitened themselves it would most likely due to racially based influences, there are cultures out there that value lighter skin own their own.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06290414173814020097noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-74764709351808590872009-11-22T22:43:32.364-08:002009-11-22T22:43:32.364-08:00I'm enjoying the people insisting that these t...I'm enjoying the people insisting that these things are not race related. As a black woman, watching that video really hurt, because I remember having similar thoughts as a kid and hoping that I'd wake up and have lighter eyes and long straight hair like a white girl.<br /><br />I lived in a black neighborhood, was around black people all the time and I felt these feelings very early in my childhood. My parents tried to instill racial pride in me by buying me black baby dolls and barbies, but I always hated those. Why? Because the white dolls were always the most popular dolls and it was obvious.<br /><br />I can't even count how many times I wanted to be lighter or all the times I've heard kids(black) use having darker skin as an insult. My own mother has used skin lightening creams her whole life and I used them from about middle school up until I left for college five years ago.<br /><br />I don't really think about that stuff too much and I've recently been trying to wear my hair more naturally(although I caved and relaxed it a few months ago). This really brought back a lot of old feelings. I really appreciate this post.chichidarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10160787698954436843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-50344442976721360852009-11-22T19:49:30.099-08:002009-11-22T19:49:30.099-08:00@Madame, the fact that you compare having a broad ...@Madame, the fact that you compare having a broad nose with having a cleft palette makes me think you need self esteem work not surgery. I bet your nose is great. I don't mean this condescendingly at all, but please keep in mind that many if not all the best plastic surgeons make patients see a psychologist before they get nose jobs. And if you're saying to them what you're saying on this board -- they might not approve your surgery. I'd rather you have a heads up on that now (in case you didn't know) than save up your money and not be able to get the surgery for that reason. And really, do you want to marry somebody who wouldn't have you with your God-given features?Tiggernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-1973710860041315602009-11-22T19:47:41.647-08:002009-11-22T19:47:41.647-08:00And Rich, blepharoplasty is NOT about having "...<i>And Rich, blepharoplasty is NOT about having "westernized" eyes, that's a really racist and eurocentric way of viewing it. Some Asians have the double fold, some do not.</i><br /><br />There is also a trend among darker-skinned Chinese to lighten their skin to look like the lighter-skinned Chinese.<br /><br />With Sammy Sosa, the assumption is that he's trying to look "more white." Darker skinned Chinese aren't trying to look "more white." They're trying to look "more like light-skinned Chinese." If it weren't "whiteness" that Sammy Sosa were trying to associate himself with, it might have been some other lighter-skinned aesthetic benchmark that he would be seeking after.<br /><br />If macon thinks that the change in America's dominant cultural position relative to other countries will cause fewer cases like Sammy Sosa, he's wrong.It's Not About Racenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-41573123452058952242009-11-22T18:36:57.006-08:002009-11-22T18:36:57.006-08:00Interesting...I already saw this on another blog a...Interesting...I already saw this on another blog and commented there.<br /><br />This man bleaching his skin is nothing but self hatred. No matter how much you bleach your skin to look White, you will never be accepted as a White person. FACT.<br /><br />As far as the eyes go, it looks as though he has the green/hazel contacts in both pictures. This man's natural eye colour is brown.<br /><br />Of course he is not the only one, we have Black people bleaching their skin to become White and White people tanning their skin to become Black.<br /><br />What a funny old world we live in.Antonia - Beauty Health Finance and Green Issues Editorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18105675673609631392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-66342267109494094782009-11-22T18:17:14.065-08:002009-11-22T18:17:14.065-08:00Jillian, I respect that you're opposed to cosm...Jillian, I respect that you're opposed to cosmetic surgery under any circumstances. The problem comes when that opposition becomes a collective tsk-tsk'ing, if not outright public shaming of those who share a different opinion. It's worse when it's masked in the veneer of race disloyalty. My favorite cousin, who suffered from a condition as child that left her with some physical disabilities, in addition to struggling with her weight, ripped the rose-colored glasses off my eyes about this one day. Of course I love her for who she is, always will, but I can empathize with how she wouldn't always feel good about herself after some 25+ years of not having fulfilled her desire for a partner. She has a bright and shining personality, definitely more pronounced than mine, yet she feels denied something she's wanted because of these issues. Still, even she acknowledges that *some* men who don't look twice at her because of their preference for thinner women aren't ogres. The gray area is much wider and more nuanced than some hard core "we should just love people for who they are" folks would like the rest of us to believe. If she chose to pursue corrective surgery, or if she didn't, I'd support her either way. As long as it doesn't cause her harm. <br /><br />More than anything, I'd try to understand where she was coming from before jumping in on my high horse and telling her it's not the right thing to do. I often believe people from privileged positions --the ones who've benefitted from their looks, their money, their connections, their able-bodied status, their education, or whatever -- are often the first and worst ones to tell those with fewer privileges what they should and shouldn't do out of some sense of moral authority. I wish people would get off it. If that makes you and others here feel uncomfortable, good. You have every right to disagree and reject this as an option for yourself, but try a little empathy as you microscope the "intent" behind someone else's actions. And there are definite demarcations between empathy, moral posturing, and pity. <br /><br />MaconD, thank you for allowing me to share my opinions here, though they might be unpopular.Madame CJ Walkernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-51408899565932934572009-11-22T14:00:31.384-08:002009-11-22T14:00:31.384-08:00"And I agree with you. It's easy to stand..."And I agree with you. It's easy to stand there and say that such and such a feature is beautiful "and I wish you could see it too," but it's quite another to actually consider someone with it for a date."<br /><br />It's not my business what Madame CJ chooses to do, but as someone vehemently opposed to unnecessary cosmetic surgery (in any scenario, regardless of race), I guess I don't understand why you would ever WANT to be with someone who doesn't love you for who you are by birth. We are who we are for a reason, and I don't understand changing that permanently.Jillianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01792137126898623243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-48529212225559589342009-11-22T12:09:11.857-08:002009-11-22T12:09:11.857-08:00Yes! Loved this post. An internalized racism makes...Yes! Loved this post. An internalized racism makes it even more difficult to be a person of color sometimes in U.S. but also abroad because you are reminded constantly of what and whose standards are considered the correct way and best. Fortunately there are people who do not believe nor feel that eurocentric standards should determine who they are. And I applaud them for being who they are not what society tells them they should be. BTW, Sammy Sosa looked far better and handsome before he changed his skin tone the same goes for Michael Jackson!Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18330065434562207107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-66558815697561427172009-11-22T10:08:49.521-08:002009-11-22T10:08:49.521-08:00Speaking on skin-lightening alone, I think it'...Speaking on skin-lightening alone, I think it's mostly an underlying hold-over from the days of skin color being a marker of class rank. You find this in many areas which have been colonized by whites. In the US, blacks were brought here and colonized and I view it in the same light. <br /><br />Whiteness has been an indicator of success in the past. And today, there is still an unspoken favoritism for lighter skinned blacks and Latinos. Take, for example, that I can't think of a single mainstream movie starring black people somehow, but geared toward a white audience, that doesn't have Halle Berry in it. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I'm just saying that I've gone to the ends of my mind and can't think of one. If the black actors in a movie are darker than a certain shade, the movie quietly shifts to being a "black" film and not picked up by the mainstream. <br /><br />My point is that although we're all not in favor of people lightening their skin for class, fame and whatever - we still have these underlying codes of success based on being light-skinned. I don't know the motives in Sosa's case, because he's already achieved "success" even in the eyes of whites, but I don't discount the idea that he was raised in a country in which being lighter gave privilege and he may have not forgotten that. I think it's ingrained in the minds of colonized people since birth and is very hard to shake for some people.<br /><br />White people have already gotten into the heads of non-white people for hundreds of years. It's so pervasive that even non-white people get into the heads of other non-white people because of it. Now white people don't have to do the work. They can simply perpetuate it by casting Halle Berry as a favorable lead character and not consider bringing darker-skinned women into those roles. It obvious that it's perfectly normal to pass them over and keep darker skinned actors existing and being famous only in black films. I could take this further but I'm just trying to say that whites are still segregating and valuing lighter skinned blacks. Just because you can think of some exceptions here and there, doesn't mean it's not so.Victoriahttp://vintagelux.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-53305232282636569012009-11-22T09:58:37.581-08:002009-11-22T09:58:37.581-08:00@Madame CJ Walker,
I think you bring up an intere...@Madame CJ Walker,<br /><br />I think you bring up an interesting point and something that I struggle with myself. There's a difference between coming to this blog and pointing out all the racist intentions and motivations and living your life. I mentioned in a comment on a previous post that I choose to turn a blind eye to many of the comments made by my colleagues that could be interpreted as and probably are racist, sexist, elitist, etc. I do this because at the end of the day, I have to live my life, and I have to communicate and interact with my colleagues. While I am for change and more people recognizing racism, I'm not yet ready to be a martyr. I'm not yet ready to sacrifice my career or other things important to me to be a martyr. This doesn't mean either that I am always silent. When I feel that I can point out the racism around me in a manner that doesn't have adverse effects for my life, I do. <br /><br />My sister has expressed the same sentiments when it comes to dating. She's shaved her hair off before and has expressed desires to do it again if it weren't for the difficulty in getting a date that came with it. And I agree with you. It's easy to stand there and say that such and such a feature is beautiful "and I wish you could see it too," but it's quite another to actually consider someone with it for a date.clhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00227699349849828151noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-25932051997073251612009-11-22T09:48:49.106-08:002009-11-22T09:48:49.106-08:00Sorry to go on a tangent, but this is from macon&#...Sorry to go on a tangent, but this is from macon's Adia Harvey link...oh my gossshhhh. <br /><br />"Thus, white slave owners could actually increase their profits by fathering children with slave women, a process which often came about through forcible rape."<br /><br />Call me naive, but for some reason this never occurred to me. It's horrifying. (Speaking of which...'fathering children to make money' sort of reminds me of the whole sperm bank issue too). <br /><br />"In some cases (but not all), the children of these unions were favored by white men. On rare occasions, they even went so far as to free these children or treat them in a completely humane fashion." <br /><br />Gosh, it's just weird how treating someone humanely is talked of as something oh-so-unusually-kind...fromthetropicsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-30195026073873082502009-11-22T09:41:56.699-08:002009-11-22T09:41:56.699-08:00I also heard that tanning has it's origins in ...I also heard that tanning has it's origins in a class-based connotation as opposed to race based: If you can get a tan, that means you can afford a vacation to an exotic place. (My guess is that this started after they invented passenger planes. And in the colonial days tanning was probably not in vogue since it would mean you look more like the locals.)<br /><br />And white skin in Asia also often has a class-based connotation: White skin means you don't work in the sun like a farmer. And because white is considered better anyways, this then in turn creates the perception that white people are also better, and couple that with 300+ years of gazing at the white colonizers who indeed occupied the upper echelons of society. So it's sort of like - the chicken and egg story. <br /><br />As for Indian features - true (about their features being Asian too). But I also sometimes hear people refer to north Indian features as 'more Aryan', hence 'better'. And when you hear that, you do kinda wonder if whiteness is the culprit after all. <br /><br />Btw, I used to wish I was taller, with a pointier nose, thinner lips, and double-fold eyelids. For me, I'm sure it had a lot to do with how popularity worked in school and the Western media I was watching, though I didn't really interpret it as such as a kid. (Not that I'd ever get a surgery.) Now I like all my features as they are and not sure why I ever worried about them in the first place.<br /><br />My ethnic Chinese cousins used to put tapes on their eyelids to create folds in them. But I'm not sure whether in their case it was due to the Western media or because there's some prejudice towards 'slant eyed' ethnic Chinese in the Southeast Asian region they grew up in...or perhaps big eyes have always been the rage? (I heard somewhere that our biological preference is for large eyes because they signify youth...but I'm not sure where I heard this or if it is true.)fromthetropicsnoreply@blogger.com