tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post7063620609169936252..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: push non-white people to assimilatemacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger115125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-45930486773518122572012-11-23T18:34:29.334-08:002012-11-23T18:34:29.334-08:00I am adopted from Honduras. I have brown skin, cur...I am adopted from Honduras. I have brown skin, curly black hair and facial features that are a mix of African, Native American, and European. I grew up in a white family of English and German descent in majority white towns. I don't speak Spanish and I look like I could come from many different backgrounds.<br /><br />I am in the process now in my life trying to find a way to assimilate into American society while at the same time freely express my ethnic features and celebrate life and belonging with people of color who I feel comfortable around and with white people who I feel comfortable around. Let's not forget, just because we may share the same racial or ethnic background with another person does not mean that we instantaneously should connect. That is part of the destructive nature of racism, the assumption that all people of color should be like one another and connect to one another, including people from the same ethnic background. It is unrealistic. If we lived in our historic countries of origin we would not connect to someone intimately just because we came from the same skin color or something. It is a shame nations push on their citizens that looking a like implies some form of connection.<br /><br />My philosophy is that empathy is what is really needed for rewarding relationships. As a person who grew up and was raised outside of my ethnic and national culture I have never felt any form of ethnic or cultural connection to anyone. But I manage to find people with enough awareness to accept me for my uniqueness, and are sensitive to my experience outside of any stereotypical norm. The world is not perfect and it is certainly important to do what you can to actively root out racism from society, but it is also important to critically think about what the superficial forms of identity and identification are and what forms on a heart level really matter.<br /><br />As far as style of dress goes, I would say that your feelings about yourself and your self identity might change over time and be open to that. But it is most important to do what you feel is right at the moment. Never lose your sense of right and wrong that is from within. That is your inner voice guiding you and you will need that your whole life. Eventually, you will probably find yourself adapting to the outer world in some ways and maintaining your own world in other ways. And yes, racism and discrimination hurt, they are real and they do happen. I had two incidents myself just last night. But you have a choice. You can use those incidents to guide you to find a better way. Another thing to remember is that people of color are can also be discriminatory towards people outside their group as well. If we notice racism in white people then we must also be willing to notice our prejudices as well because we all have them until we transcend them.<br /><br />I hope you are doing well. Thank you for the post. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-85243708870103478332010-09-18T15:42:36.271-07:002010-09-18T15:42:36.271-07:00I am half Palestinian and half Bosnian, but I look...I am half Palestinian and half Bosnian, but I look like an Arab. <br />I have very big, curly hair that often attracts attention.<br />I ALWAYS GET ASKED IF IVE EVER STRAIGHTENED IT AND THAT I "SHOULD" COME TO SCHOOL WITH STRAIGHTENED HAIR ONE DAY. <br />I kinda feel sorry for the millionth person who asks me that and I go off on them like they are the same person who has asked me a million times.Leilantelopehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00117700444742659676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-61325421912909284372010-06-02T18:37:19.637-07:002010-06-02T18:37:19.637-07:00I'm biracial (Black/white) and I've had a ...I'm biracial (Black/white) and I've had a lot of people over the years be like "well if you'd just wear this, it would look so pretty!" or "why don't you straighten your hair?" or (because I have short hair) "why did you cut your hair? It looked nice." (I even get some of these responses from Black friends/family members. White culture cuts deep.) <br /><br />I've been the only non-white person in a classroom, and it's really awkward. Because, since I can pass as white, I have to out myself if someone says something that I think needs a response, or it's like I'm just letting those assumptions go unchecked.<br /><br />I've spent most of my life in pretty white environments, so it wasn't until more recently that I started to realize the extent to which I have to assimilate or be an Other. And if I am out as non-white, there's always the question of whether "making these people uncomfortable" by pointing out that there's a non-white person in the room and maybe they should realize that is worth it or not. Kind of frustrating.gadderocknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-89802286403128827472010-04-16T15:04:36.330-07:002010-04-16T15:04:36.330-07:00August,
I think I agree; thank you for bringing t...August,<br /><br />I think I agree; thank you for bringing that issue to the forefront. Refocusing the conversation on the issue of transferring ignores the more important sources of discomfort that made Gloria consider the possibility in the first place.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-77801535142341436272010-04-16T06:25:45.620-07:002010-04-16T06:25:45.620-07:00Am I the only one kinda bothered by the multiple w...Am I the only one kinda bothered by the multiple warnings that the OP is getting about transferring? It might just be me being prickly, but I feel like, "She's a grown woman, ya'll, and more than enough people have said it already." It just comes off as kinda infantalizing to make the assumption that she has not or would not consider all of the possible ramifications of transferral, and then to belabor the point repeatedly.<br /><br />Like I said, it could be just me.Augustnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-77817084526482991822010-04-15T20:25:21.208-07:002010-04-15T20:25:21.208-07:00First, I want to make sure you are aware of the co...First, I want to make sure you are aware of the costs of transferring. I think it was stated already in a comment, but you really want to be aware of the possibility that some courses may not transfer, and that differences in gen. ed. requirements could really set you back. You might feel that the circumstances warrant you leaving, but it would be a shame if you transferred only to discover you have to start all over.<br /><br />w.r.t the dress incident, I'm not sure what to think. In isolation it seems fairly innocuous, and where she also Mexican American or were you also white, I doubt any issue would have arisen. (Although, admittedly there is a world of subtly between women that is wholly lost on me.) <br /><br />However, once you put the incident within a larger framework of how you and WP interact (and you take the effort to demonstrate how in other instances WP either pushed you to assimilate or highlighted your ethnicity in an inappropriate manner), it becomes more difficult to brush off. <br /><br />One assumption I am having a hard time understanding, is that when WP assume the universality of their behavior (i.e. "I wear dresses. I see you don't. It must be because you don't have any, because if you did have some dresses, you would definitely wear them. Oh, I have one that doesn't fit, I should give it to you.") they also assume the supremacy of their behavior (i.e. "I wear dresses and so should everyone else.") I would think that the universality assumption is mostly an artifact of ignorance (and thus, fairly easy to correct), while the supremacy assumption attaches a value to the behavior, which while it may also be ignorant, is much more difficult to change.anonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11084775237414373558noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-87579147284339883442010-04-15T19:00:14.044-07:002010-04-15T19:00:14.044-07:00unmakingmacon at gmail dot comunmakingmacon at gmail dot commacon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-25212400123007983302010-04-15T18:39:49.945-07:002010-04-15T18:39:49.945-07:00Macon, what is your email?Macon, what is your email?class of 13https://www.blogger.com/profile/04342729403199808998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-13009328243376521732010-04-15T14:10:12.013-07:002010-04-15T14:10:12.013-07:00@ RVCBard
I know I appreciate your contributions....@ RVCBard<br /><br />I know I appreciate your contributions. I tend to emotionally check out of the convo as soon as the derailers arrive but you & other regular posters have repeatedly stepped in. I know what it cost you to expand the emotional energy to say what you say. Half the time I don't even read the comments because I don't want to deal with it.modest-goddesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02349577841986972240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-80333557901325157612010-04-15T08:08:27.911-07:002010-04-15T08:08:27.911-07:00RVC Bard: Please don't leave. Your comments ...RVC Bard: Please don't leave. Your comments here are among the best, most trenchant breakdowns of the issues under discussion.attack_laurelhttp://attack_laurel.livejournal.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-13820784196476690702010-04-14T12:55:49.507-07:002010-04-14T12:55:49.507-07:00NancyP said...
Hey RVCBard, I'll miss your com...NancyP said...<br /><i>Hey RVCBard, I'll miss your comments</i><br /><br />Me too. I'd say the same to Witchsistah but I fear she's already gone.TABnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-50310104572373428562010-04-14T12:17:33.297-07:002010-04-14T12:17:33.297-07:00Hey RVCBard, I'll miss your comments - and you...Hey RVCBard, I'll miss your comments - and your gravatar. I love that movie (Spirited Away)NancyPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-27500828821659656792010-04-14T11:51:12.150-07:002010-04-14T11:51:12.150-07:00@soul:
Thanks for the shout-out, but I'm incr...@soul:<br /><br />Thanks for the shout-out, but I'm increasingly feeling like I should not bother saying much here anymore.RVCBardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06481089855894764409noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-75431310771423745782010-04-14T11:11:19.295-07:002010-04-14T11:11:19.295-07:00@soul, back at ya babe. I really appreciate your ...@soul, back at ya babe. I really appreciate your comments.<br /><br />@dis-moi quelque choses grand, you've hit on something I've been ruminating on this week and am considering submitting a guest post about: the choices POCs must make to either work/live/learn in more comfortable, safe environments or the choice to be a token, pioneer, or denigrated other in a white environment which may have other tangible benefits (prestige, opportunity for advancement, physical safety, importance to one's career). It's a difficult position to be in.nonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11285430099883802519noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-5624333575558782252010-04-14T09:59:48.994-07:002010-04-14T09:59:48.994-07:00I am also a Mexican American student attending an ...I am also a Mexican American student attending an overwhelmingly white university (University of Chicago). I have complained about feeling left out and feeling the strong pressure to be more 'white,' especially through speech, and have lightly considered transferring to a more "minority-friendly" school. Friends have suggested it too. But I honestly think that would be a step backward for me. I don't want to isolate myself. I don't want to further "other" myself. Does that make sense? I don't know. I just would never really want to exclude myself from such a great university community (that I worked hard to get to, dammit!) because ... where is the progress forward? I think this comment is a little specious and I apologize, I just don't have much else to say. Good luck!Karine.https://www.blogger.com/profile/01557491087679490443noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-782947625739763442010-04-14T09:44:37.410-07:002010-04-14T09:44:37.410-07:00[Anonymous white American male, the comment you su...[Anonymous white American male, the comment you submitted for publication has been rejected because it's (perhaps unwittingly) dismissive of central points raised by the original post, and by many commenters upthread. If you want to learn how that's so, I suggest that you read the original post and the above comment thread more carefully, as well as <a href="http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/10/derail-dialogues-on-race-with-arab.html" rel="nofollow">this swpd post</a>. ~macon]macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-34562612167711918972010-04-14T08:01:26.081-07:002010-04-14T08:01:26.081-07:00Alex E,
I'd love to talk with you about your ...Alex E,<br /><br />I'd love to talk with you about your proposed topic. <br /><br />I work for a white-dominated social change organization, as a person of color, and I'm appalled, myself about the lack of awareness around issues of race and oppression in general. It's like a white, middle-class liberal wonderland for folks, as opposed to a social justice movement, and people seem to prefer privilege over progress. <br /><br />Any thoughts, notes, info you or anyone else has on this 'subtle racism' I would greatly appreciate.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02355222349215451070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-50110001025725098452010-04-14T07:57:03.231-07:002010-04-14T07:57:03.231-07:00@ attack_laurel
i would say that all those things...@ attack_laurel<br /><br />i would say that all those things you listed fall under the banner of do unto others as you would have done to you. what I'm starting to recognize though is that with interactions between whites and POC the golden should be the foundation but at the same time another layer of awareness is needed on top of that. because in a multicultural environment what's good for me may not be what's good for you. while in a monocultural environment do unto others is really all you need to avoid offending or <br />hurting anyone.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-34326454295298067782010-04-14T07:57:03.232-07:002010-04-14T07:57:03.232-07:00@soul, you are sweet. YOu are very welcome. Than...@soul, you are sweet. YOu are very welcome. Thank you to you too, I've found your comments and those of many others really helpful as well.LisaMJhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18063083954078964292noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-77260688019833235352010-04-14T07:04:55.010-07:002010-04-14T07:04:55.010-07:00@soul Exactly so.@soul Exactly so.olderwomanhttp://sociologicalconfessions.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-50499952478677035312010-04-14T03:55:43.570-07:002010-04-14T03:55:43.570-07:00@honeybrown1976, the sciencegirl, RVCBard, witchsi...<b><br />@honeybrown1976, the sciencegirl, RVCBard, witchsistah, LisaMJ, Moi....<br /><br />THANK YOU</b><br /><br />I am a black woman and I appreciate the times I have seen you break down a topic and the posts you have made back and forth with olderwoman.<br />I have seen where she has thanked some of you for the clarifications and references to texts which have helped her to better shape her posts here.<br /><br />Your lot is a thankless one, and usually the fruits of your effort go un-noticed and underappreciated.<br /><br />Since there are thanks going out in this thread.. I'd like to thank you for the part you have played here.<br /><br /><b>Thank you</b>soulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06035447940907993185noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-37494145582960778262010-04-13T22:55:24.253-07:002010-04-13T22:55:24.253-07:00"I have a problem with your comment claiming ..."I have a problem with your comment claiming you have zero native american ancestry. Mixing between the Spanish and Mexican Indians has been going on for hundreds of years,"<br /><br /><br />azzlemazzle,<br /><br />That is a reasonable assumption given that you don't know me and haven't seen my Mexican relatives. Of course I can't say with 100% metaphysical certainty, but if you were to see these people, you would probably agree. When DNA tests get a little cheaper, I am going to get my genetic profile done just for the fun of it and for the kids etc. Maybe I will get a surprise, but I seriously doubt it.white mexicannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-37538182565113393712010-04-13T21:02:07.642-07:002010-04-13T21:02:07.642-07:00@Alex E,
Thanks for the topic suggestion, I'l...@Alex E,<br /><br />Thanks for the topic suggestion, I'll look into it.macon dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-44024297105282707842010-04-13T20:28:19.913-07:002010-04-13T20:28:19.913-07:00@white mexican
I have a problem with your comment...@white mexican<br /><br />I have a problem with your comment claiming you have zero native american ancestry. Mixing between the Spanish and Mexican Indians has been going on for hundreds of years, I seriously doubt you're as "pure" as you claim to be. If anything you seem like you're trying to convince people (including yourself) that you have no native american ancestry, as if that would be a bad thing.azzlemazzlenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-35662888400614182802010-04-13T19:27:23.556-07:002010-04-13T19:27:23.556-07:00Alex said,
"it sucks when the racism is so s...Alex said,<br /><br />"it sucks when the racism is so subtle that most White people would probably just give you a blank stare if you tried to discuss these experiences with them."<br /><br />I totally agree. I am a white girl, and my first thought when reading this was, "wait, what's the problem here?" I can understand the isolation of living in a white environment, and the awkwardness of being singled out by a professor, but the situation with the dress just didn't click with me as being racially problematic at first.<br /><br />I also come from a conservative background, and don't dress or present myself by the standards of conventional beauty. I have also had friends try to make me more "attractive", and I know that it's a painful experience, so I thought to myself, "isn't this a problem that all women, regardless of color, have to face?" Because this kind of thing happens to white women too, I couldn't see how it could be racist.<br /><br />But after reading the comments here and thinking about it some more, I realized that that's exactly the problem. I don't ever have to worry about whether someone is trying to make me assimilate, or just being friendly (albeit in a rude way), because no one is ever going to try to assimilate me. I don't have to wonder whether something is a racial microaggression or not, because it never has, and never will happen to me. And that's a function of white privilege. <br /><br />Thanks for sharing, Gloria.R.A.noreply@blogger.com