tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post5080240750347021025..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: infiltrate non-white spacesmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger112125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-82424587525092501772010-07-14T05:52:36.576-07:002010-07-14T05:52:36.576-07:00was just re-reading this and the end of page 3 rem...was just re-reading <a href="http://www.scribd.com/full/15740150?access_key=key-m4so7xy84xz3w491eth" rel="nofollow">this</a> and the end of page 3 reminded me of this discussionjas0nburnsnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-67241587699454817942010-07-07T14:03:49.268-07:002010-07-07T14:03:49.268-07:00Jasmin,
The Oakwood area of Venice (the pla...Jasmin,<br /> The Oakwood area of Venice (the place you're told NOT to go into after dark) was the area Black folk originally settled in the 1930's and 40's...but like the Dodo Bird, Black and Latino residents are slowly but surely being relegated to extinct status...The Oakwood area is east of Abbot Kinney (the founder of Venice) and west of Lincoln...and beware, those hipsters bite! lolololRonnie Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-18023186284974808042010-07-07T09:43:00.089-07:002010-07-07T09:43:00.089-07:00@Joanna
I agree. I used to live in Harlem...or Mo...@Joanna<br /><br />I agree. I used to live in Harlem...or Morningside Heights to be exact. I noticed that in a few months, more and more whites started to move in. My roommate at the time, who was a Columbia student and of mixed Hispanic/Jewish background said to me that she noticed that the white people in our neighborhood kind of acted like they "owned" the place--never once acknowledging us. <br /><br />I remember one day I was on the train and there was this older black homeless guy going on some rant about how whites were "taking" over Harlem when years ago they wouldn't have stepped foot there. It was interesting to see (but no surprise) that a great deal of the white people on the subway shifted uncomfortably in their seats, while the passengers that were POC had a knowing smirk on their faces.Starving Writerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13021868010368078441noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-25027743716507504672010-07-07T06:11:08.842-07:002010-07-07T06:11:08.842-07:00Hey James, here's a really good SWPD post to s...Hey James, here's a really good SWPD post to share with your friend. It's about white people who feel bad about living in POC neighborhoods.<br /><a href="http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2009/04/feel-bad-about-participating-in.html" rel="nofollow">SWPD: Feel Bad About Participating in Gentrification</a>Victoriahttp://vintagelux.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-18125089196271082172010-07-07T01:07:50.548-07:002010-07-07T01:07:50.548-07:00Ronnie,
No way!
I am interning in LA (walking d...Ronnie,<br /><br />No way! <br /><br />I am interning in LA (walking distance from Venice), and I've already seen plenty of the hippiest hipsters that ever hipped--are the bungalow houses right near the beach the ones that originally belonged to Black people? I was just there on the Fourth and my aunt and I remarked on the strange combo of old-school and just-built houses near the beach.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-44778201864791853172010-07-06T22:43:26.267-07:002010-07-06T22:43:26.267-07:00Ronnie... I remember back when my sister moved int...Ronnie... I remember back when my sister moved into the neighborhood she moved into (in Bed Stuy) and I was so angry at her because I KNEW that she would have no respect for her neighbors, and she would NOT try to be part of the neighborhood.... around that time I read an article about gentrification and the article called the white people moving into the area (I believe it was Harlem) PIONEERS???? I thought that was SO OFFENSIVE!!!Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409225119134162318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-8362267751852966672010-07-06T22:18:38.623-07:002010-07-06T22:18:38.623-07:00James, you do realize it's possible for a whit...James, you do realize it's possible for a white person to live in a Black neighborhood...and not be OF the neighborhood!...I live near a beach community (Venice, California) that has had a significant African-American population since the 1900's...in fact, the coastal areas (Santa Monica, Manhattan Beach) were the places that Black folk were essentially exiled to because Black weren't allowed to live in the central inland cities...It wasn't until white folks decided that living by the oceanfront was desirable that gentrification became the rule of thumb...and don't forget "gentrification" for all practical purposes means that when white decide a neighborhood has value THEY move in...<br /><br />but i digress, when whites started moving into Venice, property values went up, the wealthier whites started pressuring local government to enforce "quality of life" laws...which were nothing but "fix up your house or be fined"...naturally, older Black and Latino residents couldn't afford to fix their homes, some move away because they can't afford the property tax...So now there are two Venice areas...one were Black and Latino families eventually give up the ghost and move and rich whites who buy up the lots and build up fortresses with privacy gates and shrubbery...walking around with their hipster selves, riding their bikes, walking their dogs, patiently biding their time until there are no "undesirables" left...so no, you don't get a merit badge for being a white guy or girl living in a Black neighborhood, unless you are actually apart of hood in spirit and in deed...Ronnie Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-69329549343512288502010-07-06T22:18:38.624-07:002010-07-06T22:18:38.624-07:00I was thinking of that when she talked to me about...I was thinking of that when she talked to me about it. I would hope she's smarter than that, being how she can usually see though shit like that. <br /><br />Thanks again for the input, I appreciate it.Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-83663893551448692762010-07-06T22:03:54.983-07:002010-07-06T22:03:54.983-07:00James- tell your friend to DEAL WITH IT!!! POC in ...James- tell your friend to DEAL WITH IT!!! POC in this country who live in predominantly white neighborhoods go through the same shit every day! It also depends on HER attitude, to be honest. I lived in a predominantly West Indian neighborhood, with a Grenadian family. I was friendly with my neighbors. I smiled and waved when I saw a neighbor on the street. My neighbors usually smiled and waved back. If they didn', I assumed they wanted to be left alone, and I respected their wishes.... When I went to the stores, the first few times people looked surprised to see me, but after that they knew who I was and were mostly friendly, OR they ignored me and went about their own business. On the few occasions where people seemed bothered by my presence, I DEALT WITH IT! My sister and her husband also moved into a predominantly Black neighborhood. They constantly complained about their neighbors. They insisted that when a woman questioned them about cleaning up after their dog it was because she hated them because they were white. When my brother in law got into a verbal altercation with a neighbor, he started yelling out for other people to call the police. When they didn't, he started loudly yelling "It's because I am white, isn't it?" They had NO RESPECT for their neighbors. <br />White people have such a long history of discriminating against others that they want to legitimize their bigotry by swearing that THEY are being discriminated against. If she lived in a white neighborhood and her neighbors acted "pissed" towards her, would she still feel like she could not walk on the streets? She has no idea what her neighbors or thinking, feeling, or experiencing. White people are so used to basing their behavior around POC on hatred and bigotry that they project that onto anyone who seems to not like them. They cannot IMAGINE that it is something they SAID or DID to offend. Often, they want to put the label of "discrimination" on the behavior of others because they are projecting from their own mindset! I mean DAMN, not everyone is going to love and embrace you... get over yourself!! ( I am speaking to the white collective here, not you specifically!)Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409225119134162318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-65834314246193328972010-07-06T21:23:20.314-07:002010-07-06T21:23:20.314-07:00This first paragraph might be a derail, but I'...This first paragraph might be a derail, but I'm not sure. >.<<br /><br />The question I asked might be a derail, because what I was getting at is that someone I know who is white lives in a neighborhood thats almost completely populated with POC. She doesn't really even care. But she tells me that she feels that she isn't allowed to walk outside. I asked her why, and she said because she feels that people she passes act pissed towards her, or dumbfounded that a white girl is walking outside in the neighborhood. She points out that it's not the majority of the people, but enough to make her feel like she has to stay inside. The thing that makes it unique to me, though, is that this neighborhood is a development type place, and she was one of the first people to put a house out there. To her, she's a legitimate native of that neighborhood. Also, since it's only the newer families behaving this way, she finds it extremely rude for 'new' people to be offended by her presence.<br /><br />I don't know what to tell her, that she needs to understand that her neighbors might want a space without WP, or that those few people are dicks and try to ignore them?<br /><br />I know this is probably a complete derail, so it won't hurt my feelings if you call me out on it ^^: I would copy paste this and ask it on another medium, but I'm afraid I will get a privileged answer.<br /><br />Anyway. I'll keep that in mind, and thanks for the clarification.<br /><br />I suppose if I am invited to a POC event, maybe it's best to stay withdrawn and stick close to those who invited you?Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-74093939679434983302010-07-06T20:40:50.026-07:002010-07-06T20:40:50.026-07:00Joanna, yes! Just because some people invite us do...Joanna, yes! Just because some people invite us doesn't mean everyone there did or we have a pass. Good point.Victoriahttp://vintagelux.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-91067730153033889202010-07-06T19:04:32.393-07:002010-07-06T19:04:32.393-07:00In Canada, the Caribana festival which celebrates ...In Canada, the Caribana festival which celebrates the freedom of African slaves from the Caribbean is NOW completely taken over by people of other races. It's no longer the festival it used to be and I no longer attend. In Canada, where there are black communities, gentrification is EVERYWHERE. Do not come to live in Canada...it's actually far worse.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342931567831004330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-72622226988946217322010-07-06T18:37:59.789-07:002010-07-06T18:37:59.789-07:00To add to what Victoria said.... DO NOT accept an ...To add to what Victoria said.... DO NOT accept an invitation from friends to go to a non-white space or event, and then spend DAYS AND DAYS after wards complaining because you get the perception that someone is "looking at you funny". This happened when I was in college. My friends often invited me to fraternity parties and step shows. I always enjoyed myself. Not only was I with friends, but most of the people at the events already knew me. This other white girl was invited by some acquantances to a step show, and for days after, all she did was complain about how people were "giving her dirty looks" and making her feel "uncomfortable" I believe she went to the show just to satisfy her own curiousity. She never once considered how POC might feel every day in our majority white college, she was just worried about how SHE felt.Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409225119134162318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-33535692268739618512010-07-06T18:27:28.768-07:002010-07-06T18:27:28.768-07:00@James
Would you say someone who was raised in a ...@James<br /><br /><i>Would you say someone who was raised in a POC neighborhood is invasive? (not talking about myself)</i><br /><br />I actually was raised in many different POC neighborhoods not once or twice, but always. I don't think there's any exception there either, despite my own knowledge that I'm genuinely enjoying something I have enjoyed since childhood. The way I see it, everyone else there doesn't know where I came from. To them, I'm yet another white face. <br /><br />I'd only go if my friends said, "Hey, come with us!" And believe me, there are times that they do *not* want me to go with them (night clubs, a girls' night out here and there, some parties). If people who actually know my intentions need space from white sometimes, it's easy for me to see how people who <i>don't</i> know me might feel.Victoriahttp://vintagelux.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-75879462408415333232010-07-06T17:42:38.163-07:002010-07-06T17:42:38.163-07:00Joanna, no harm, no foul, love. Look, you did spea...Joanna, no harm, no foul, love. Look, you did speak a truth; many white people do feel that if they piggyback on a discussion about racism/ white supremacy, they've absolved themselves of any individual responsibility. White privilege is a very petty, pompous self-delusion...it can be an a extremely warped attempt to glean a measure of self-esteem or a prideful stab at self-exaltation...either way, it's a lot easier for white folks to TALK about it than to renounce and reject it...<br /><br /><br />In terms of white people interacting with Black people in particular or POC in general, it's hard for whites to take a back seat on any level because they've been the center of attention for so long, been the standard for all things that matter, being relegated to the "general seating section" is akin to an insult...to not be regarded, consulted, desired or wanted is like a living death...that's why it so easy for them to take a discussion about someone else's pain and morph it into "what about me?"..."you're seperating yourselves!"..."why do you need BET or EBONY?"...isn't that racist???, etc., etc. etc.<br /><br />sigh!Ronnie Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-80799628572190386692010-07-06T14:51:31.000-07:002010-07-06T14:51:31.000-07:00Hmm, ok. Pretty straight forward.
It's rathe...Hmm, ok. Pretty straight forward. <br /><br />It's rather disappointing to see that cultures must be separated for them to be comfortable. I do understand why it is this way though.<br /><br />Would you say someone who was raised in a POC neighborhood is invasive? (not talking about myself)<br /><br />Well I would want an invitation, I'm no party crasher >.<Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-84913357245283777412010-07-06T10:50:17.630-07:002010-07-06T10:50:17.630-07:00James - any place that WP are the minority or non-...James - any place that WP are the minority or non-existent. Any cultural festival or street party that doesn't involve a majority of white-skinned people. Puerto Rican festival, Kwanzaa celebration, neighborhood block party, Soul Fest, various Independence Day celebrations for countries you've never been a resident of, etc. It really doesn't require much to figure this out. If it isn't a part of your culture to be involved in such a thing, it's not a white space. Even if it IS a part of your culture, you should be invited to enter by the people who know it's been a part of your culture.Victoriahttp://vintagelux.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-31292607186100897002010-07-06T08:46:12.225-07:002010-07-06T08:46:12.225-07:00Ronnie... sorry for being blunt and well, kind of ...Ronnie... sorry for being blunt and well, kind of rude in my last comment.... I do believe participating in this blog is a good thing... its just that some people think "Well, I talk about racism and white supremacy on a blog online, so now I don't have to DO anything about it in real life" so I wanted to emphasize that there is so much more to do then participate in an online discussionJoannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409225119134162318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-37894045105984913602010-07-05T23:17:35.694-07:002010-07-05T23:17:35.694-07:00Joanna, like you said, the internet is ONE compone...Joanna, like you said, the internet is ONE component...these discussions are as real as if i were talkin' to you face to face...if not, why would we bother expressing our opinions? I may not cross gracefire's path anytime soon...so the blog is what i'm workin' with...feel me?ronnie brownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07986056708679132837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-62660460329858590742010-07-05T09:23:26.561-07:002010-07-05T09:23:26.561-07:00Ronnie... I understand that you are trying to enco...Ronnie... I understand that you are trying to encourage gracefire to continue participation as part of her anti-racist work, but do you really believe that participating in a discussion on a blog is ANYONE'S "truest evidence of your sincerity and committment to combating white supremacy"?? This is the internet. There is a whole REAL WORLD out there, and I think there are so many more concrete ways to do anti-racist work than participating in a blog, though I do believe that it can be ONE COMPONENT in the fight against white supremacy.Joannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15409225119134162318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-87461349646352064982010-07-05T09:05:02.617-07:002010-07-05T09:05:02.617-07:00@gracefire, the truest evidence of your sincerity ...@gracefire, the truest evidence of your sincerity and committment to combating white supremacy is to not let Jane's, soul's and cloudy's appropriate admonishment of your (i believe unintentional) derailing of this discussion to prevent you from refering to or participate in future subjects on this blog...Ronnie Brownnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-71829555364486164712010-07-04T21:11:07.811-07:002010-07-04T21:11:07.811-07:00I'm curious, and I'm sorry for asking ^^;
...I'm curious, and I'm sorry for asking ^^;<br /><br />But what spaces are POC spaces? I mean when I try to think of any, I can't. I can only think of one, a Hispanic man who invites my dad and me over to hang out with his family. <br /><br />Just any event where white people are absent?<br /><br />Then again, I usually don't just stand around awkwardly...Jamesnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-67364268525761201592010-07-04T18:06:28.910-07:002010-07-04T18:06:28.910-07:00@ grace
try this site for anti-racist parenting
ht...@ grace<br />try this site for anti-racist parenting<br />http://loveisntenough.com/<br /><br />that would be the more appropriate place to direct your questionsmodest-goddesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02349577841986972240noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-49402990261361540642010-07-04T17:33:07.398-07:002010-07-04T17:33:07.398-07:00I am sorry I derailed the thread with my comments ...I am sorry I derailed the thread with my comments and I am sorry I hurt and offended. Again, I should have left this space for the support of the OP, and I am sorry.Gracefirehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06579505932612742333noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-3380236582762049312010-07-04T01:11:42.488-07:002010-07-04T01:11:42.488-07:00"I am sorry that my comments derailed the thr..."I am sorry that my comments derailed the thread."<br />"I am also sorry that my original apology offended."<br /><br />You're still distancing yourself. You should be saying "I'm sorry<b> I </b>derailed the thread with my comments."<br />"I'm sorry <b>I</b> originally hurt and offended."<br /><br />Please just read this entry: http://stuffwhitepeopledo.blogspot.com/2010/01/offer-white-apologetics-instead-of-just.htmlCloudynoreply@blogger.com