tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post3984024589060605941..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: refuse to shut up and listen when people of color explain racismmacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger67125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79814824799728670832013-01-07T11:13:53.565-08:002013-01-07T11:13:53.565-08:00I have of late been making my space parts of the S... I have of late been making my space parts of the South, Maryland, and in particular Baltimore, Frederick, Hagerstown, and Laurel. One thing I believe I can say is that in Maryland I have seen whites that would most vociferously agree that there is racism and not enough of it. That they would say that the country is going to hell through giving too much to people of color. And I will say that there are whites in New York City that would say the same thing. I can't say how many of the whites I referred to Maryland are the descendants of the millions of poor whites of the antebellum South that could not compete against slave labor and subsisted because planters aimed to drive out competition from those poor whites. How many of us today even came across the concept of how slave labor affected other groups? I only became aware when reading Black Reconstruction in America:1860-1880 by W.E.B. DuBois. He talks about the white planter, the white worker, and the black worker in a certain part of the book. He posits that when slavery (chattel)ended many of the planter society were ruined and that the white poor that had been eating their dust was able to assert themselves. They became those militia that rode around assisting the poor whites that became Southern Democrat politicians in rolling back the gains made by blacks. These militia were known as the "red shirts" and also the "white league" and I don't want to leave out the ku klux klan, and the knights of the white carmellia. These mostly formerly unempowered whites were poorly educated since during slavery there was no public school system and children of the merchant and professional class sent their children to private schooling as did the planter class. These were the folk that devised the black codes and jim crow with systems that were "slavery by another name" (see the documentary online free). A prison system that was practically lily-white before emancipation quickly became 70% black in slightly less than a generation after emancipation. I also refer to the 13th amendment,Article I reads:<br /><br /> Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.<br /><br />I think one need not point out the utility of the black codes in creating a population that could be forced into servitude through convict leasing, chain gangs, and the force of debt peonage a la share cropping. I set up these facts of history underscore the efforts used to suppress black participation in so-called american society. In those days it was proper to be so forthcoming. Today, in an era referred to as color-blindness it is more politically correct to engage in covert, subtle coded forms of suppression of people of color. When times change methodology experiences a metamorphosis. So I said all of this to point out that white people in america are not a homogenous group except possibly in the area of the lack of awareness or consciousness in varying degrees of white privilege or white entitlement. This "privilege" or "entitlement" is akin to the the type of "privilege" enjoyed unawares. In fact,can the white person in the main define or articulate what whiteness or being white means? I am reminded of instances where people in finance sectors are asked to explain derivatives. It becomes apparent that it is more difficult to explain with an economy of words. It is the same for someone that is white to explain what being white is. At the same time I am also reminded of John Howard Griffin's book "Black Like Me" published in 1961. A few years after when he was attempting to repair a flat tire on a Mississippi road he was beaten and left for dead by a group of men who had apparently somehow recognized who he was. <br />mantonio58https://www.blogger.com/profile/01468080093964415835noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-64075568080139242492012-12-09T01:56:19.873-08:002012-12-09T01:56:19.873-08:00With any other race, I have never had problems wit...With any other race, I have never had problems with: horrific deception, backstabbing, stereotyping in order to displace people who are perceived as competition, the hiding of information required for you to be successful in your job, refusing to train new minority staff and yet setting other whites up to achieve; blatantly leaving minorities out of information circles, and the endless political games. I have survived this long only for two reasons, I am genuinely talented in my area of management and administration, and I keep a positive attitude. In my field 98% of the white men I work with are egomaniacs and about a quarter have actual talent. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09464666607086869668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-54856361153841237222010-06-21T23:50:52.480-07:002010-06-21T23:50:52.480-07:00I have always disliked Barbara Walters. She has a...I have always disliked Barbara Walters. She has a huge tendency to interrupt people generally when they are speaking. The double standard is obvious: if it were a group of black female commentators who interrupted a white woman, they would be branded RUDE, AND LOUD, for all eternity...and no, Vanessa's beauty has nothing to do with this.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07342931567831004330noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-35630867217703694862010-03-28T16:37:13.550-07:002010-03-28T16:37:13.550-07:00The whole "Brought up feeling they're sup...The whole "Brought up feeling they're superior" thing is true. I stopped by a kindergarten/daycare to deliver a sign for the front of the building, and went inside to get a signature for the paperwork and ran across this scene. There was a group of kids who were going to be a play group, with a black girl as the leader of said group.<br />The lone caucasian kid in the group didn't like that deal.<br /><br />Bobby (white child): I'M s'posed to be the leader!<br /><br />Teacher: Why is that? I never said you were the leader.<br /><br />Bobby: But I'm S'POSTA be!<br /><br />Teacher: I'm sorry, but Keira (black child) is the leader today.<br /><br />Bobby: *pouting, arms crossed* She doesn't LOOK right!<br /><br />Teacher:...well what about Miguel, or Roberto (twins, either puerto rican or latino)?<br /><br />Bobby: No! They don't look like a leader's s'posta, too!<br /><br />Teacher: *a little annoyed, since she herself was latino, and she could see where Bobby's logic was going* "Either", Bobby. What's a leader "sposta" look like, then?<br /><br />Bobby: *proudly* ME.<br /><br />Teacher: Well, not today.<br /><br />Needless to say, Bobby was a little disappointed during playtime THAT day. Damn, that woman was evil, and if she wasn't pushing 60, I might've asked her out...but that's altogether off-topic.<br /><br />Caucasian racial superiority is ingrained, from cartoons, fantasy novels, to movies. The cast may be multi-racial, but the leader/superior/good guy figure is always either caucasian, or has caucasian features that mark him as a noticeably different race than the other characters. Kids pick up on this, even if they don't have racist parents feeding them propaganda.figurationnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-40962529289859113462010-03-20T09:25:40.133-07:002010-03-20T09:25:40.133-07:00racism,is so foreign to whites, it's amost lik...racism,is so foreign to whites, it's amost like a myth..they get so tired of reading about it, and hearing about it..because it doesn't exist in their world..it's like reading about the weather on mars..<br /><br />If asked, they'll tell you, black people are just lazy criminals, making excuses, looking for a handout, upset about what their ancestors did to our ancestors during slavery........still clueless as to how racist, many of them really are.<br /><br />so, because of this, they tend to believe, that black people are just "blowing things out of proportion",,or that we should just ignore it...because they cannot relate..they minimize the black experience..they even compare the gay rights movement to the civil rights movement..which is deplorable.....you can walk into a store as a gay white man, you don't have to disclose which hole you prefer, and nobody will know you are gay..you will get the best service, that store has to offer..but when i walk in, i cannot choose, everyone knows that i am black, and i am treated accordingly....i hate the comparison...dEEnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-3362476452803531012010-03-19T10:47:01.357-07:002010-03-19T10:47:01.357-07:00i'm in involved in something similiar right no...i'm in involved in something similiar right now on the internets. in a thread asking if white folks realy have a problem with a non-white lead, someone mentioned europe and some white brit took umbrage and proceeded to state how there is no problem for black and asian actors there (also claimed there was no such thing as a magic negro trope). <br /><br />i responded, and in another response i gave links to black brit actors with their own stories about the fight for roles and relevance and of course he dismissed their experiences and proceeded to state there were plenty of roles that just don't get filled. <br /><br />there's other racefail material from his posts but frankly i'm tired of dealing with this type of bs, it's a waste of time and stress and an assault on my spirit. i simply don't have the patience anymore. i. don't. give. a. fuck.7thangelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-78787029234709459092010-03-18T21:17:18.902-07:002010-03-18T21:17:18.902-07:00I find this both familiar and disturbing, but for ...I find this both familiar and disturbing, but for more than one reason. It reminds me of the arguments about racist Sports Mascots.<br /><br />White people explode about not being allowed to,"honor" us with these offensive caricatures. And we are told to stop being so sensitive, and basically to shut up and let them use our images in any way they like.<br /><br />Like I'm honored by the Washington, "Redskins."Linde Knightonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00856372022085252106noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-21797182699277102902010-03-18T18:07:35.187-07:002010-03-18T18:07:35.187-07:00OMG!! Those bitches are not only arrogant,obnoxiou...OMG!! Those bitches are not only arrogant,obnoxious,loudmouthed,and stupid but they are downright RUDE!! And spare me 'jennie' yeah the Klan wasn't thinking she was so 'hot' when she won Ms. America and there were FBI agents guarding her door because the Klan was sending her death threats. I have seen this kind of thing from the supposed 'liberal' media all the time. That's why they are WORST to me than the conservative media because they are just as racist and full of it but you use the 'I'm liberal so you KNOW I got your back right?' bullshit. And keep in mind the very shitty way Babs treated Star Jones I'll bet they wouldn't have pulled that shit if Whoopi was there. So they instead do it with the more 'polite' Ms Williams.murbilusnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-6908680131240084972010-03-16T13:06:40.097-07:002010-03-16T13:06:40.097-07:00I have nothing to add to your post since it's ...I have nothing to add to your post since it's not really new shit coming to light. Except, I love how meta to watch white folks explaining whitesplaining. LULZ.<br /><br />Actually, I coined "White Translating" which is a better term since it fully embodies exactly what's going on and shows an ACTIVE rather than passive role in the behavior. 'plaining sounds helpful and it's most certainly not.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-24335740391977376282010-03-16T08:26:42.816-07:002010-03-16T08:26:42.816-07:00@jennie w.,
The first few seconds of this clip loo...@jennie w.,<br />The first few seconds of this clip look to me like a pretty dramatic example of the prejudice that Vanessa Williams experiences as a black woman, even though she makes your list of "beautiful black women."Parsleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11839365293088368011noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-11625537011247804582010-03-16T08:16:14.998-07:002010-03-16T08:16:14.998-07:00Here's something I've wondered: do you thi...Here's something I've wondered: do you think the bias against anattractive people is greater than a racial bias? Every time Halle Berry or Vanessa Williams or any other beautiful black or Latina woman complains about race, I just wonder how much they have been spared any prejudice because they are so attractive. <br /><br />Because being beautiful is, I believe, more valuable in our society than being white.Hildiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08825826597565796467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-65139695191318536662010-03-16T03:29:48.043-07:002010-03-16T03:29:48.043-07:00Previous commenters have said much of what I wante...Previous commenters have said much of what I wanted to say. One other thing I noticed was that Behar started, early in the clip, to interrupt Walters, and then she apologized and asked if Walters wanted to go on. <br /><br />Nobody offered Williams the same courtesy, and apparently none of the whites at the table even noticed that difference.<br /><br />Couldn't watch the whole thing.Maggienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-81880496753067655462010-03-15T23:57:27.363-07:002010-03-15T23:57:27.363-07:00Also,
If there is any other public image that symb...Also,<br />If there is any other public image that symbolizes this is the interruption of Ross Williams, Director of movie Music by Prudence by a white woman Elin Burkot who rudely and pompously jumped in front of Williams just as he was about to give his acceptance speech. She totally cut him off and hogged the spotlight. Keep in mind this is the first time the Oscars acknowledged a black film director making a film about an African country in the movie it takes place in Zimbabwe and allowing Zimbabwean to speak for themselves.Aannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-61956791131191371652010-03-15T23:57:27.364-07:002010-03-15T23:57:27.364-07:00Excellent post on "refuse shut up when people...Excellent post on "refuse shut up when people of color explain racism." There's an excellent children's book that talks about this view white people and mainstream society had about black=bad, horrible, etc. The name of the book is "Grandpa, Is Everything Black Bad?" Its an excellent book despite being for children it says about self worth, identity and being proud of one;s heritage and roots. <br /><br />That sucks that Vanessa Williams was interrupted by Walters and other three "nice ladies." I don;t understand why white people refuse to hold their comments until the end whenever People of color speak about racism and as Ms. Williams put it, "white savior syndrome" always feeling they (white Americans) need to save a child or children of color (look at how many celebrities have gone to Malawi or another African country to adopt African children to "save them" from dark continent of Africa making it seem Africans can not raise their own children. Keep in mind, African parents do not need celebrities or white missionaries raising their children, they can raise their kids by themselves with the help of the community and extended families) as though the children do not have role models, parents or community figures who can raise them and have or to look up to. <br /><br />As for not refusing the shut up, I can count the many times I have hinted and explained racism to my white classmates and peers and they will either interrupting me mid sentence, get a little annoyed keep wanting to return to the subject or try to excuse the racist act with the phrase, "well maybe they didn't know how to act toward you..." As a matter of fact a classmate who is a Native American and I were explaining to our experiences abroad in Latin America to a white peer of ours one evening. He had also studied abroad in central America. I will not call the countries name. Anyway he explained to us how he was treated by locals of the said country. He was respected and seen as valued guest partly because he was white. The way he described it reminded me of how the conquistadors were viewed as Gods upon reaching the AMericas. So my classmate and I listened to his story without interrupting him showing respect. <br /><br />Than we began explaining to him that we were both placed in color and class system of the respective countries we studied as though we were Latin Americans which we weren't by the way. I told my friend how I dislike having my name be "negrita" instead of my actual name though it is not considered an insult in most Latin American countries. Actually, Afro-Latins are seen as hardworking, trustworthy, etc. However, I still disapproved of strangers calling me by my skin color instead of name or just chica. Not everyone acted the same way towards me. My friend also told me how he was called, "moreno" as a name and said in the country he studied, most non-indigenous European descendant and mestizo people looked down upon the indigenous as "feos" or ugly for having brown skin and looking too indigenous. We both told our white peer how we were automatically lumped into negra and moreno by default because most of Latin America only views blond, Americans as "real" Americans whereas if you're a person of color in these countries you have to explain again and again that you are American and not from Latin America or the Caribbean which we both had to do on several occasions. Before we finish our explanation of our not so privilege treatment, our white peer was interrupting trying to downplay and outright excuse our experiences with color caste system by saying, "Well they don't know where to put you. You can't blame them." As though my friend and I can fit into neat categories according to class while he is treated with the uttermost respect.Aanhttp://www.amazon.com/Grandpa-Everything-Black-Sandy-Holman/dp/0964465507noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-76355915785641797022010-03-15T18:48:14.867-07:002010-03-15T18:48:14.867-07:00"I thought I had great instincts about human ...<i>"I thought I had great instincts about human nature ... but am beginning to wonder if the only thing I know about is 'white nature'."</i><br /><br />OMG <b><i>tell</i></b> me about it.<br />Sometimes I wonder if I even know my <i>own</i> nature.<br /><br />And I'm not even white!karinovahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14324280726621881771noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-87222003342371410832010-03-15T16:54:08.226-07:002010-03-15T16:54:08.226-07:00I am a long-time lurker on this blog - absolutely ...I am a long-time lurker on this blog - absolutely love it, link to it and read regularly. M. Gibson's fantastic comment expresses much of what I want to say, and I just wanted to flag this up:<br /><br />http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/mar/14/martin-mcdonagh-race-row-broadway<br /><br />as a perfect example of whites thinking they know what 'racism' is and turning it back on POC who complain about it!KJBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08571556157838498964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-27011944965838193172010-03-15T12:12:26.704-07:002010-03-15T12:12:26.704-07:00Thanks for this post. There was always something ...Thanks for this post. There was always something about this type of story (white savior) that I felt a little uncomfortable/embarrassed about as a white person but I couldn't articulate exactly what that was. <br /> <br />Probably off topic, but I've never gone to school with many POCs (none until college) and never had a POC as a teacher. So, I wonder if it is a common white tendency to simply not listen at all, regardless of the topic being discussed (and probably doubly so when racism is involved). And if the white educational system doesn't simply reinforce this behavior. In my university classes up to 20% of your grade is often based on 'participation'. Which usually means running your mouth even if you have nothing pertinent to add. Sometimes in certain classes, I would like to just listen to others more but am penalized for that. Honestly, I do wonder if it is like that in predominately POC classes or POC led classes. Not trying to ask stupid questions, it's just that before I started reading this blog regularly I thought I had great instincts about human nature ... but am beginning to wonder if the only thing I know about is 'white nature'. I guess you can say I've been working on re-orienting my world view and I'm not quite in focus yet.LolaAnnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-995797265167611692010-03-15T01:09:43.699-07:002010-03-15T01:09:43.699-07:00Babs and her white cronies did the classic d-dance...Babs and her white cronies did the classic d-dance: derail, dismiss, defend, deflect, deny. What they were saying to Vanessa is: "It doesn't matter that the young man whose story the film is very loosely based on was relegated to the blackground so that the mighty whitey could take center stage -- Black people are supposed to see the beauty and importance of this story, and should be happy, even grateful, that any story about or featuring Negroes is on the screen." <br /><br />Excuse me while I vomit.<br /><br />This is why I rarely talk to white people about race/racism/white supremacy. It's always about their trying to prove (1) me wrong and (2) that they are the ultimate authority on everything, including something they have no first-hand knowledge of or experience with. You can ice a billion cakes with the arrogance and entitlement they ooze (see: Madison).James Earlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09278418034695794717noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-60902221021403617842010-03-14T19:16:27.523-07:002010-03-14T19:16:27.523-07:00@ Paul, I don't think they (minus Joy) gave to...@ Paul, <i>I don't think they (minus Joy) gave too much thought to the underlying issues. </i><br /><br />No, of course they didn't. It's such classic white privilege: no motivation to think about race. But it gets, worse doesn't it? <br /><br />They didn't think about the issues on their own, but then comes along Vanessa Williams who hands them (and their huge audience!) an opportunity to think about it. And they don't just passively not listen, not just avoid, they actively undermine her take on it.<br /><br />It's very unsurprising but even more aggravating because of the show business aspect. 1) They're modelling this mode of behaviour for their audience. 2) They're denying their audience an opportunity to learn something and 3) They're in the business of talking about pop culture on TV - they should have more motivation than the average white person to think about race. I think that it's due dilligence for them to have learned about media racial tropes and thought about it enough that they can recognize them and communicate to their audience about them in layman's terms. Or at least their handlers should be priming them.Karen Lnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-45149768670814334282010-03-14T18:51:29.187-07:002010-03-14T18:51:29.187-07:00Ms. Williams was definitely silenced by her White ...Ms. Williams was definitely silenced by her White co-hosts.Sarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06307884979658363958noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-13395391054524621202010-03-14T16:31:42.452-07:002010-03-14T16:31:42.452-07:00…no, I am not black, I am Zimbabwean. If the race ...<i>…no, I am not black, I am Zimbabwean. If the race I subscribe to shares a common adjective with words that have negative connotations such as ‘blacklist’, ‘blackmail’ and ‘black market’, then I denounce the title.</i><br />You can't opt out of your race, I'm afraid...Opabinianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-76821236858827267932010-03-14T15:03:41.644-07:002010-03-14T15:03:41.644-07:00Macon,
That you even give these topics serious co...Macon,<br /><br />That you even give these topics serious consideration speaks volumes about your character. I do appreciate you. Keep doing your thing. <br /><br />BTW, I've always called it "White Entitlement," and most that I've encountered in life are oblivious to it until it's pointed out. At that point, defensive denial kicks in like a fight or flight response.<br /><br />Thanks again for your reflections.HymnAgenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08801615549604086828noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-43311159938778536052010-03-14T11:07:56.592-07:002010-03-14T11:07:56.592-07:00There was a discussion about this on a beauty mess...There was a discussion about this on a beauty messageboard I post on. Responses were<br /><br />it was a beautiful story so who cares?<br /><br />It was a true story so who cares?<br /><br />Vanessa Williams is irrelevant so who cares?<br /><br />The story would be just as important if a black family saved white people (those stories don't quite make it to the big screen).<br /><br />Barbara, Joy's and Elisabeth's dumb ass were very condescending to Vanessa Williams.Nianoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-64224321345907369302010-03-14T10:41:56.505-07:002010-03-14T10:41:56.505-07:00i wish they would have let her finish and explored...i wish they would have let her finish and explored what Vanessa was saying more because she is absolutely right about the film, the book was much more centered around the character of Michael Oher and what HE accomplished rather than making it all about Leigh Ann saving the day. I loved the book but was very uncomfortable with the spin and shift of focus of the film because it created that narrative that vanessa was talking about. On the other hand would she have preferred it if leigh ann had not stepped in? or just that white people hadn't made such a self congratulatory film about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-62947158373599261462010-03-13T22:31:17.816-08:002010-03-13T22:31:17.816-08:00@ Ó Dochartaigh
because their conversation is a ...@ Ó Dochartaigh <br /><br />because their conversation is a perfect example of what PoC's have to deal with every. single. day.MissCegenationnoreply@blogger.com