tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post1895442180625853915..comments2024-03-06T08:29:13.333-08:00Comments on stuff white people do: teach their children that the united states is a country, but not an empiremacon dhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/07795547197817128339noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-6374032204951222082008-12-04T10:53:00.000-08:002008-12-04T10:53:00.000-08:00Love the post. I think it is SO KEY to look at ou...Love the post. I think it is SO KEY to look at our "rosy narrative" history critically. What is even more key is finding out a way to channel REAL information to school children. Haven't figured that one out yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-83038725768209952162008-12-03T11:56:00.000-08:002008-12-03T11:56:00.000-08:00>jw, you make a pretty sharp division there bet...>jw, you make a pretty sharp division there between white Americans and American POC--the former all bad, the latter all good.<BR/><BR/>This is your interpretation, I never wrote that all whites are bad or all PoC are good. I wrote:<BR/><BR/><I>Many American PoC seem to have much more awareness and also knowledge about American imperialism</I><BR/><BR/>There are also polls, the majority of Black people were against the invasion of Iraq for example<BR/><BR/>>From your position as a white person in Germany, what makes you so sure that you can generalize about American POC like that, and especially, that the word "empire" is common among American POC for describing their country? <BR/><BR/>The position from outside is often the better informed I guess and also PoC inside the USA are in most cases better informed about America's reality than white Americans. Victims of your system, regardless which way, can't be so blind like white Americans. <BR/>But yes, Macon also wrote about it and this seems to be a tough thought for many white Americans: That PoC know more about whites and therefore white supremacy than white people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-64403478741736505682008-12-03T06:31:00.000-08:002008-12-03T06:31:00.000-08:00Great post, thanks Macon. I do know some people wh...Great post, thanks Macon. I do know some people who could use a book like that one by Zinn, and they'll be getting it for the winter holiday.<BR/><BR/>jw, you make a pretty sharp division there between white Americans and American POC--the former all bad, the latter all good. From your position as a white person in Germany, what makes you so sure that you can generalize about American POC like that, and especially, that the word "empire" is common among American POC for describing their country? I'm a white American, so I don't know either, but from what I can gather here, it's not much if any more common among non-white Americans than it is among white ones.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-79902215078809997822008-12-03T04:06:00.000-08:002008-12-03T04:06:00.000-08:00one can blame the school-system or teachers for wh...one can blame the school-system or teachers for white American arrogance and "not knowing", but I think this is the convenient way to look at things. <BR/>Many American PoC seem to have much more awareness and also knowledge about American imperialism and I assume that many of them use the same school-system. <BR/>Most white Americans would still be "ignorant", a willful ignorance, because they never have to feel the pain they cause to other people, within America or also outside.<BR/>White Americans can be artificially outraged about injustices without even knowing what they are talking about. White Americans aren't outraged about Iraq because it was an illegal invasion but because it was a failure according American terms. <BR/>America knows that it is an imperialistic nation and America wants it to be, the superpower with the power to invade every country they think they can gain something from it. <BR/>Education alone won't stop this, being a superpower just feels to good. Pressure from outside will stop this I thinkAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-29292726222879008612008-12-02T20:48:00.000-08:002008-12-02T20:48:00.000-08:00@Mr. Noface:now it has less to do with guns a bomb...@Mr. Noface:<BR/><BR/><I>now it has less to do with guns a bombs</I><BR/><BR/>What do you mean?<BR/><BR/>@Kit:<BR/><BR/>I was almost shocked from commenting after reading your comment about the history teacher.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-84095948862453831582008-12-02T17:43:00.000-08:002008-12-02T17:43:00.000-08:00Excellent post, Macon. I met all my daughter's tea...Excellent post, Macon. I met all my daughter's teachers on back to school night, and liked them all except her history teacher. Here this was, an honors class, and this silly woman was teaching only from the book. I asked her if she planned to pass out handouts during the year of writings by other historians such as Howard Zinn, and you'd think she was sucking on a lemon. <BR/><BR/>One of my kid's first assignments was truly stupid: it asked them to come up with five ideas <I>slaves</I> could have had to gain their freedom. <BR/><BR/>Well, we know what happened to the Native Americans who resisted.<BR/><BR/>Another jewel was what should freed slaves do to earn a living? My kid got an A for saying "volunteer to stay there and work for free in exchange for food and necessities."<BR/><BR/>This teacher isn't even white (although I suspect she thinks she is); she's a very light Latino and in her 50s. <BR/><BR/>Did I complain? No. The lady's ideas are set in stone which I deduced from her reaction to Zinn's book. She's an old dinosaur and I'm comfortable that the younger group of teachers are generally more open. Meanwhile, I add in a few history lessons in casual conversation, and know that my kid will take some classes in college that will expand her knowledge. <BR/><BR/>As a 9th grader, history isn't even on her list of awesome classes, and that's fine with me. She grew up around the news so she has some idea of the ugly side of the US, and at the same time, the wonderful side too. I think it's very important to never teach one's kid to hate their country; hell, it's all we've got, and a country is nothing w/o people. Good people can make it better.Kit (Keep It Trill)https://www.blogger.com/profile/03027769872237001801noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-9746778693360297782008-12-02T13:08:00.000-08:002008-12-02T13:08:00.000-08:00This is a topic that has fascinated me for a long ...This is a topic that has fascinated me for a long time now. The day before Thanksgiving, I talked to both of my kids about the genocide that unfolded after the Native Americans helped the Pilgrims learn to live in the New World. They didn't like hearing it. It made them sad. But, my son had that look in his eyes he gets when gaps in his under-standing of the world get filled- in or when contradictions in his young mind get resolved.<BR/><BR/>Ironically, I think it is because we live in a democracy that U.S. citizens are incredibly naive about what their government does in their name. Our population must be deluded with notions that our interventionist foreign policy comes from noble intentions to ensure popular support for imperialist actions.mthgkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10085913585539040947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-34520607686053707262008-12-02T10:01:00.000-08:002008-12-02T10:01:00.000-08:00Excellent post, as always! Speaking for myself, I...Excellent post, as always! Speaking for myself, I didn't become aware of America's Imperialistic ways until my junior year of high school, in AP U.S History. Later, during my college years, I became more informed on just how deep American Imperialism runs in terms of this nation's history. We have basically been building an empire ever since we shook ourselves from the clutches of mother England (Manifest Destiny anyone?). Truth be told, we really haven't stopped being imperialistic (its just that, now it has less to do with guns a bombs and more to do with contracts, trade agreements, embargos, and the like)and as always we ignore the beam in our eyes while we attempt to remove the speck in the eyes of our neighbors.Mr. Nofacehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07164229381294354588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-19376236477183613172008-12-02T08:58:00.000-08:002008-12-02T08:58:00.000-08:00Whadya mean empire? We live in a democracy, silly!...Whadya mean empire? We live in a democracy, silly!<BR/>Seriously, this failure to teach children the true history of the US and our true role in the world as global bully really bugs. In this vein, parades particularly irk me -- all that flag waving and child inodcrination! Don't even get me started on the 4th of July!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-528074983146803930.post-52682645017251820872008-12-01T22:07:00.000-08:002008-12-01T22:07:00.000-08:00Brilliant. I always think I'll have a hard time k...Brilliant. I always think I'll have a hard time keeping my mouth shut about my future child's History curricula for these very reasons. <I>Lies My Teacher Told Me</I> is a good one, too (for adults. Would love a kid's version).BigRedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09759749577650048187noreply@blogger.com